[3.5e] Barbarian help.

[loopy]

Hey all, I was just wondering if I could get a level-by-level 3.5 build of my character Krusk. I tried going to the Character builder thread, but after half a week no one had replied and the game starts in two days, hehe.

Krusk is a raging combat monster, in the style of Urggzob from the Icewind Dale Let's Play.

Basically the character is summarised in 3 quotes:

"Let them come! Urggzob will crush their ambushes!"

"Ha ha! Urggzob is ten dictionaries!"

"Urggzob is the pinnacle of fighting fashion!"

Aaaanyway. Basically I was thinking he'd be a barbarian, as my DM is kind of sick of me pulling classes like "Factotum" and "Swordsage" out of the mix while everyone else uses rangers and fighters out of core.

However, anything out of the PHB, PHB2, or Complete series should be fine as far as building him.

We'll start at level one, and he'll be a Half Orc, stats with racial adjustments are as follows:
Str: 20
Dex: 16
Con: 18
Int: 12
Wis: 16
Cha: 6

I was hoping someone would able to build him up to level 10 with advice as to where to go from there, as I normally play skillmonkey's and have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO (EXCEPT CRUSH)!

I was considering swapping int and charisma, as the Barbarian skill list sucks anyway. My idea was to approach my DM about docking int 4 points for an additional 2 points of strength, as he has allowed the (politically incorrect) 'retard strength' idea before.

I was also thinking about dipping a level in rogue, for example, to get the craven feat and increase damage?

Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Vaynor]

First of all: Krusk – really original.

Second of all, barbarians are generally pretty well off staying barbarian. There's not too many prestige classes that are that good or useful to multiclass into. At most, take a level or two of fighter for some bonus feats if you need them. Bear Warrior is an interesting barbarian PrC, but it's not that great.

As for rogue, barbarians mimic a lot of rogue abilities (trap sense, uncanny dodge, etc.) but it might be worth a couple levels for evasion and a few extra damage dice.

[loopy]

First of all: Krusk – really original.

Second of all, barbarians are generally pretty well off staying barbarian. There's not too many prestige classes that are that good or useful to multiclass into. At most, take a level or two of fighter for some bonus feats if you need them. Bear Warrior is an interesting barbarian PrC, but it's not that great.

Actually, I sent that name in a text to my DM before I realised where it had come from. *facepalm*

Do you have any interesting ideas for feats or anything?

[RTGoodman]

Kinda depends on the way you want to go with it. Barbarian is a fairly decent Core melee class, and you can go several ways. One good suggestion is to take the Spirit Lion Totem variant in Complete Champion - you trade Fast Movement for Pounce, which is a brokenly good deal. Two pretty basic builds:

-Charging Leaping Power Attacking Shock Trooper - The gist of this build is that you boost Str high, take Power Attack, and then take all the feats that make PA rock. Leap Attack doubles your damage (so, with a two-handed weapon, you take -1 atk for +4 damage) with very little cost (i.e., some ranks in Jump). Shock Trooper lets you take the penalty from PA to your AC instead of attack bonus, meaning you do a lot of damage AND don't have to worry about missing as much. From there, it's up to you. A couple of levels in Fighter can get you all the required feats (PA, LA, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper) earlier than straight Barbarian, but it's not strictly necessary. You could also do the Dungeoncrasher Fighter from Dungeonscape, but it's not strictly necessary (it just makes your bull rushes ridiculous). Prestige Class options are pretty open - Frenzied Berserker is good for PA, but it also means your party will hate you, but just about any full-BAB class will do.

-Chain Tripper/Beatdowner - This build focuses on big large and in charge. Grab a spiked chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Knock-Down, and any other good melee feats (the stuff listed for the Charging Leap Attackers, etc.). You basically hit people for moving anywhere around you (especially with a Psychic Warrior dip for expansion, the Goliath Barbarian substitution levels that make you actually Large, etc.), you hit them several times, trip them, hit them as they get up, and all kinds of stuff like that. You'll have to find a way to up your Int by a point, though, to get Combat Expertise. May dump some Wis?

[sombrastewart]

Are you able to perhaps do a level adjustment race? Goliaths (Races of Stone) have a +1 LA and barbarian substitution levels.

I'm just throwing that out because I love goliaths.

Feat suggestions would be the obvious Power Attack and so on, but I definitely second the Lion Totem from Complete Champion.

[Eldariel]

Uhm, think you could pull one feat outside those books? Drow of the Underdark has this wonderful feat called "Imperious Command" that requires 15 Charisma and makes every character you Intimidate Cower (cower means they can't take actions, just sit in a catatonic position) for one round and then being Shaken. Absolutely fabulous for a Barbarian, with access to Intimidating Rage.

Other than that, I'd probably dip two levels of Fighter and pick up some extra feats, then head into a prestige class. And look into being a full Orc; the Wisdom-loss is well worth the Strength bonus. Hell, be a Water Orc if allowed. Sundark Goggles are like 75gp from Races of the Dragon; allow you to ignore the Light Sensitivity-nonsense (and look cool in shades).


Uh, but yeah, back to feats:
-Pick up at least Steadfast Determination [PHBII] to shore up your Will-saves.
-Pick up Power Attack and wield a two-handed weapon (duh, you're a Barbarian), go into Shock Trooper [Complete Warrior] and Leap Attack [Complete Adventurer] and charge at things (also, trade your Fast Movement for Pounce from Complete Champion - it's the Spirit Lion Totem, really useful when charging a lot)
-Pick up Extra Rage as your first feat for low level play. Rage 3/day is much more fun than 1/day.
-Look into entering a Prestige Class; few good options include Frenzied Berserker [CWar] (just work out your Will-save and get a Will reroll or some such to avoid killing your party - you need to be able to make a DC 20 save consistently), Bear Warrior [CWar] (allows you to turn into a Bear!) and yeah... Those two are the biggest. Fist of the Forests [CChamp] is a decent bridge class.


I'd dump Wisdom, to be honest (Steadfast Determination allows you to use Con for Will-saves); you say Barbarian skill list is poor and yet it contains Intimidate, Listen, Survival, Handle Animal & Ride, among others. Then alternative class features offer Tumble, Gather Information and Sense Motive. And nothing wrong with cross-class ranks.

Oh, and choose which Rage to use. Standard Rage gets most HP and highest Will-save (probably good to stick to it if going Frenzied Berserker), while Whirling Frenzy offers most damage (extra attack) and AC and Ferocity offers immediate action use (without burning a feat on Immediate Rage) and Initiative-boost (and AC too, I guess). Suit to taste.


You may wish to check out this Barbarian Guide here. May be of interest to you. Worth noting that Barbarians are the game's best Trippers, and being Tripped = being owned.


Anyways, simple shell I'd suggest if you want damage:
Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Martial Rogue (or whatever that grants 2 feats; Monk, Psychic Warrior, anything) 2/Any Other Bonus Feat Class 1/Barbarian +1/Frenzied Berserker 3

Feats:
1. Extra Rage (note that by strict reading, it should give you 2 extra uses of both, Rage and Frenzy)
Flaw. Endurance
Flaw. Steadfast Determination
2F. Power Attack
3. Imperious Command
3F. Improved Bull Rush
4B. Intimidating Rage
5B. Cleave
6B. Shock Trooper
6. Destructive Rage
9. Leap Attack

Can pick Improved Trip through Wolf Totem Barbarian (compatible with the Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion).

If Character Flaws for extra feats aren't allowed, dropping Frenzied Berserker and its prerequisites (Cleave, Destructive Rage - Intimidating Rage + Imperious Command can go too should you feel so inclined) is the way to go. Also, Imperious Command is expendable - truly, the most important feats in that pile are Extra Rage, Steadfast Determination, Power Attack, Shock Trooper & Leap Attack.

If you feel like going pure Barbarian, start with those (although non-Human doesn't get enough feats without multiclassing...).

[Vaynor]

Well as far as feats go, there's a lot of really cool feats in Complete Warrior for buffing rage (Extend Rage, Extra Rage, Destructive Rage, Instantaneous Rage, Intimidating Rage) and as far as core goes you'll probably want Power Attack, maybe Cleave. Improved Bull Rush is pretty nifty if you see your character bull rushing a lot. Improved Critical is an easy way to increase your damage by a lot, and is especially effective with a weapon with a critical threat chance more than just on a 20. You'll need to take that at level 8+ though.

Combat Reflexes can also improve your damage by a lot when fighting multiple enemies, and your Dex is good enough for it to be fairly effective.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

You should put the 16 in INT, not WIS.

[Gaiyamato]

You should put the 16 in INT, not WIS.

Seconded.
Also get Iron Will, Will To Live, Wounded Animal and Back To the Wall if your DM allows it and you have the free slots.

But just Power Attack, Cleave and Great cleave are awesome for a start.

[loopy]

Unfortunately the point of this character is to prove to my DM that I won't consult every splatbook and feat in existance to make my guy as awesome as he can be, hence Drow of the Underdark is out.

He also won't allow flaws any more, due to me using them with my human factotum to get 12 inspiration points at level one.

Definitely looking into the Lion Totem and that guide though.

EDITing the fail out of my post (flaws, not feats, loopy!)

[RTGoodman]

He also won't allow feats any more, due to me using them with my human factotum to get 12 inspiration points at level one.

I hope you meant "non-Core" feats or something, or else that's the lamest houserule ever.

Either way, Barbarians can still be decent with just Core feats, but not AS good. PA, tripping, and all that are still pretty good tactics, it's just that (like every other build out there) there's always something from a random splatbook that can make you slightly better.

In the event of being pushed into Core-only, well, Saph's Horizon Tripper is actually a very nice build.

[Gaiyamato]

He won't even allow SRD + The Quintessential Barbarian II?

Nothing too broken or anything there.

A wizard can still do better using just Core than a Barbarian with SRD+TQBII.

[loopy]

I hope you meant "non-Core" feats or something, or else that's the lamest houserule ever.

Either way, Barbarians can still be decent with just Core feats, but not AS good. PA, tripping, and all that are still pretty good tactics, it's just that (like every other build out there) there's always something from a random splatbook that can make you slightly better.

In the event of being pushed into Core-only, well, Saph's Horizon Tripper is actually a very nice build.

*cough* FLAWS, not feats. *headdesk*

I can still use the PHB2 and all the Completes. Just not any other splatbook.

[Gaiyamato]

Oh.. thats cool. Not allowing feats would have been stupid. But not allowing flaws is fine and dandy.

Also if you look up all of the feats I suggested first off you will find they only kick in when you are dying.. So you can argue that they are cool like that.

I often play my barbarians running about but naked andleaping in front of traps etc. just to get the titanic STR bonuses. lol.

[RTGoodman]

*cough* FLAWS, not feats. *headdesk*

I can still use the PHB2 and all the Completes. Just not any other splatbook.

Ah, okay, much better. Either way, as long as you've got Power Attack, you can't go TOO wrong with a Barbarian. Probably one of my favorite archetypes to play, both for roleplaying and mechanical purposes.

[Gaiyamato]

Yeah, Improved Trip, Improved Critical and anything Involving the Power attack chain.
Leap Attack and the nastinesst that goes with that.

And a great bit axe.

That is the core of a Barbarian.

[Uin]

Barbarians have some really good alternate class features, I'd be happy to play a straight barbarian with the right combo. Off the top of my head...:

Rage -> Whirling Frenzy (d20 SRD)
Fast Movement -> Pounce (Complete Champion)
Trap Sense -> Spell Sense (Complete Mage) or Trap Finding (Dungeonscape)

[Gaiyamato]

ooh yeah pounce is very good..

*nods*

and I've always preferred whirling frenzy over normal rage.

[Uin]

I'm a fan of Spell Sense, at least casters have to TRY and hit your touch AC.

[Gaiyamato]

I'm a fan of Spell Sense, at least casters have to TRY and hit your touch AC.

Works well with a high dex, whirling frenzy TWF Barbarian I've found.
I think there is a feat out there somewhere that lets you ad your STR Rage bonus to DEX instead of STR as well.
There is also a feat that lets you add DEX to damage.. though be damned if I can remember where, or even what they are called.

[Uin]

Shadow Blade in ToB adds dex to damage with Shadow Hand weapons while in a Shadow Hand stance. Not particularly helpful, but a 3 level Swordsage Dip could be very tasty.

[Gaiyamato]

Yeah I've found warblade is a great combo with Barbarian.

But no.. there are feats that do that also. :P

*scratches head*

[Mr.Moron]

Are you dead set on Half-Orc? A full-blooded Orc nets you that much more Orcish flavor, with a bigger STR bonus.

[Faleldir]

Yeah I've found warblade is a great combo with Barbarian

This is true, but it's a shame you can't make Concentration checks while raging. Your Will save is still an obvious weakness; make sure someone in your party has Grease at all times.

[Eldariel]

If you only stick to those books, go:

Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian -> with Extra Rage, Power Attack, Endurance, Steadfast Determination, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper & Leap Attack. Instead of Barbarian, you could also go into Bear Warrior at 8, going for:

Barbarian 5/Fighter 2/Bear Warrior 3 by level 10 with feats:
1. Extra Rage
3. Power Attack
B. Endurance (you can trade Improved Uncanny Dodge for a bonus feat)
F. Improved Bull Rush
6. Steadfast Determination
F. Shock Trooper
9. Leap Attack


But yeah, those feats are what I'd go with in the nutshell.

[Person_Man]

Frozen Dwarf Hulk Smash might be what you're looking for. Though sadly it's outside your posted books allowed, your DM might make an exception for you.

[Gaiyamato]

This is true, but it's a shame you can't make Concentration checks while raging.

You can with whirling frenzy. :)

[KnightOfV]

I've seen Mad Foam Rager from the PHBII used to great effect in one of my games. If you don't want to spend two feats on Steadfast Determination it's the next best thing.

Getting one extra turn to Leap attack/pounce the enemy before the enchantment spell (or dragon's breath attack or WHATEVER) takes you out of a fight is invaluable.

Since you have high wisdom anyway, I'd recommend Mad Foam over Steadfast.