[4.0] Putting your favorite 3.5 races, classes into 4.0

[Umael]

When 4.0 first came out, one of the complaints was that they had done away with various races (gnomes, half-orc) and classes (barbarian, druid). Then WotC released PHB II (4.0), and we got those races and classes, as well as a few others.

But what races that you liked from 3.5 still aren't there in 4.0? What classes do you want to see?

To my knowledge, the raptorian, the spellscale and the illumian haven't been updated to 4.0 yet.

The monk and the psion aren't 4.0 yet either, but after a conversation with a friend, we believe that instead of releasing them in a third Player's Handbook, it will probably be in two different books, one for the fantasy Asian content and the other for the psionics aspect.

(I could easily see monk, samurai, shugenja, wu jen, and ninja in an Asian-themed campaign. Although it would be cool, I highly doubt that WotC will adopt some of the themes from AEG's Rokugan (since AEG is back to being independent of WotC) and include the Naga, Kitsune, Nezumi, Kenku, or Mujini as playable races.)

[Mando Knight]

Monk and Psion have been confirmed to be the Psionic Striker and Controller, respectively, and are currently scheduled for the PHB 3. 30-level playtests of both classes are available for DDI subscribers.

Gnomes were playable races in core, too, as a Monster Manual race. They simply didn't have feat support until PHB 2.

Ninja and Samurai at least are unlikely to be separate classes at this point, since "Samurai" isn't different enough from the Fighter or Paladin, or the Ninja from Rogues (or Monks, if you prefer more magical-type ninja).

[RTGoodman]

The monk and the psion aren't 4.0 yet either, but after a conversation with a friend, we believe that instead of releasing them in a third Player's Handbook, it will probably be in two different books, one for the fantasy Asian content and the other for the psionics aspect.

Incorrect. The Monk and Psion are both in 4E, released as preview material for PHB3. The Monk is a Psionic Striker, and the Psion is a Psionic Controller. The Ki power source (the "Asian" one) proved untenable, so Monk was moved to Psionic since, well, Psionics is about perfecting your mind and body anyway, and that's the Monk's whole shtick.

As for the Illumian, I've been thinking about doing a write-up for them, but I'd have to get my Races of Destiny back from whoever borrowed it first. Don't really care for Spellscales or Raptorans, but they MIGHT have been updated in homebrew somewhere. I'd Google it.

EDIT: Ninja'd, of course.

Ninja and Samurai at least are unlikely to be separate classes at this point, since "Samurai" isn't different enough from the Fighter or Paladin, or the Ninja from Rogues (or Monks, if you prefer more magical-type ninja).

You could even play a samurai with a Warlord. Ninja could be Rogue, Monk, maybe Ranger, or probably the D&DI-exclusive Assassin class that's coming out in the next couple of months.

[Artanis]

Unless something has drastically changed, you and your the OP and his friend are wrong: the "asian-themed" Ki power source is gone completely, and the Monk and Psion are both psionic and will be in PHB 3.


Edit: geez, ninja'd three times

[Kurald Galain]

But what races that you liked from 3.5 still aren't there in 4.0? What classes do you want to see?

Pixies. I suppose dragonborn can play the raptorian, and deva can pretend to be illumian. I'm not sure what a spellscale is.

The monk and the psion aren't 4.0 yet either, but after a conversation with a friend, we believe that instead of releasing them in a third Player's Handbook, it will probably be in two different books, one for the fantasy Asian content and the other for the psionics aspect.

'fraid not. WOTC has officially confirmed that monks are psionic, and that the Asian-themed Ki power source is Not Gonna Happen.

As for missing classes? I'd like to see an actual illusionist, enchanter, or necromancer. Or for that matter, a class that focuses on mounted combat. I'm not sure that's going to happen, though

[Umael]

Regarding Monk and Psion and the upcoming Player's Handbook III: Well, that is good to know.

Not exactly on-topic, but good to know.

So what do people think/want PH3 to include, insofaras races and classes go?

[Master_Rahl22]

I never did play any non-PHB races in 3.5 and those are all present now, several vastly improved over their 3.5 versions *cough*Half-Elf*cough*. As for classes, nothing immediately comes to mind. Of course I haven't played much that was non-PHB for classes either. I saw one thread on the Gleemax forums about somebody who really wanted to play a Dervish, and I love that class so I checked it out. Basically, a TWF Ranger with either Storm Warden or Blade Dancer PP is a Dervish. You get TWF, lots of movement and ways to avoid OAs, and dish out lots of damage.

[Hzurr]

As far as PHB3 races go, my guess is that most of the traditional psionic-y races will be in it (I'd heavily bet on both of the Gith races, possibly Duegar (however it's spelled), possibly half-giants, maybe some of the random bug races from 3.5XPH). I also believe that the PH3 is going to expand on the primal power source, so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Raptorans in there.

There have also been random rumors about a "shadow" power source, and if so I'd bet we'll see Shadar-Kai as PC races, and classes that could include necromancers and ninja. I'd take this with a pretty heavy grain of salt, though, because it seems like a "Shadow" power source suffers from a lot of the same weaknesses as a "Ki" power source.

[hamishspence]

these days Duergar are more devilish than psionic- shooting quills from their beards.

[Tokiko Mima]

these days Duergar are more devilish than psionic- shooting quills from their beards.

Gotta love Google Image search...

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[erikun]

Weapon Focus (Beard)? AWESOME!!!

Well, the Minotaur is pretty much confirmed for PHB3, due to the cover. It also looks like we'll be seeing the Githyanki and Githzerai.

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As for other races? Something more Primal (Raptorians?) would make sense, although I don't think there's anything more than speculation at this point.

The Monk (Psionic Striker) and Psion (Psionic Controller) have been confirmed. The name "Empath" has been mentioned for a Psionic Leader, but there are no details so far. I've heard no details about any Psionic Defender, although "Psychic Warrior" or "Soulblade" wouldn't surprise me.

Ki power source is, as they say, dead. I believe the reasoning was that WotC didn't want to narrowly define an "eastern martial arts" power source, so it got divvied up into other sources - as others have pointed out, we already have capable Samurai and Ninja classes.

Shadow power source and Elemental power source are still up and kicking - I would have thought Elemental would get divided between the Swordmage, Sorcerer, and Warden, but apparently there's still enough ideas left for a full Elemental power source. Current expectations is that Shadow will be in PHB4 (along with Shadar-Kai, Necromancers, and Shadowdancers) with Elemental in PHB5.

[Lappy9000]

Well, Erikun, you have officially introduced me to a piece of 4e art that I really, really like! I'm quite glad that the gith look awesome (instead of constantly looking weird in every book I see them in)

I don't play 4e, however, it'd be awesome if they could add in some bhuka or asherati. I highly doubt it's gonna happen, though.

[Mando Knight]

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This pic almost looks to me like they Photoshopped an actual photograph instead of having an artist draw it from scratch.

[erikun]

Sandstorm?

It looks like 4E's philosophy so far is against racial variants - except elves - so we're unlikely to see the Bhuka anytime soon. Possibly as a Goblin variant in one of the Monster Manuals, but not as anything seperate from the base Goblin. While this does remove a lot of silly subraces, we also lose the cool ones, too.

Asherati? Kind of doubtful, as they were in one sourcebook and we never saw them sense. I suppose it's possible, but I don't think we'll be seeing any glowing sandswimmers anytime soon.

And if you haven't seen it yet, here's the artwork for Githyanki, Githzerai, and Illithids from the 4E MM.

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[Tiki Snakes]

I'd like to see something sprite or fairy style, yeah. I'm not sure we're likely to, however, given that tiny races are very much being avoided as playable.

HOWEVER, in my mind, that makes them all the more worthy of home-brewing, because your work is so much less likely to be over-written by official stuff. The trick would be balancing the concept of tiny pc's at all, first, however.

I'd also get a kick out of the equally unlikely Illithids, Harpies, and Yuan-Ti. But then, I've always had a thing for such types, and the concept of playing cool creature races WITHOUT such hideous Level-Adjustment / ECL stuff to figure out is like ambrosia.
I know there are homebrew efforts already, for some of the above. Not entirely sold on what I've seen, though, and it's not like I'll get opportunity to play such a thing anytime soon anyway. ^_^

[warrl]

I'd like to see something sprite or fairy style, yeah. I'm not sure we're likely to, however, given that tiny races are very much being avoided as playable.

I already have a very-small character concept I want to play. She's an arcane caster (probably sorcerer) with a hawk familiar that doubles as her mount.

[NPCMook]

Just FYI, the Psion is going to print as is, it is not a playtest.

[Indon]

I really liked the WoW D20 system, so once I got familiar with 4th edition, I set about tinkering with a WoW 4ed homebrew - I figured it'd work well.

So I've already homebrewed my favorite race (Jungle Troll), but I gave up before completing any homebrew classes (a cooldown system of ability regeneration pretty much means you have to create power progressions from scratch).

[dragoonsgone]

Githyanki and Githzerai are playable from the monster manual. They will probably give them more support sooner or later. Would be kind of fun to see a monster players handbook.

[Rhawin]

I'd like to see something sprite or fairy style, yeah. I'm not sure we're likely to, however, given that tiny races are very much being avoided as playable.

Considering how shafted Halflings are (can't use [most]Crossbows?), I doubt that there will be many small races in 4e.

[Mando Knight]

It looks like 4E's philosophy so far is against racial variants - except elves - so we're unlikely to see the Bhuka anytime soon. Possibly as a Goblin variant in one of the Monster Manuals, but not as anything seperate from the base Goblin. While this does remove a lot of silly subraces, we also lose the cool ones, too.

4E has Goblin subraces, though, as well as two different kinds of Shifter, so I think we'll see subraces cropping up out of everywhere. And then lesser subraces (like Sun and Moon Elves) will appear as mutually exclusive racial feats.

I'm putting in another vote for playable Illithids, Yuan-Ti, etc. In fact, Illithid would probably be rather easy to stat out, just give it a Dhampyr-like mind-sucking power or Mind Blast 1/encounter, and give it bonuses to Intelligence and either Wisdom or Charisma.

[Belobog]

Considering how shafted Halflings are (can't use [most]Crossbows?), I doubt that there will be many small races in 4e.

They have sizing rules in the PHB, so they can use those weapons, they just have to be sized down, far as I can see.

[Tiki Snakes]

4E has Goblin subraces, though, as well as two different kinds of Shifter, so I think we'll see subraces cropping up out of everywhere. And then lesser subraces (like Sun and Moon Elves) will appear as mutually exclusive racial feats.

I'm putting in another vote for playable Illithids, Yuan-Ti, etc. In fact, Illithid would probably be rather easy to stat out, just give it a Dhampyr-like mind-sucking power or Mind Blast 1/encounter, and give it bonuses to Intelligence and either Wisdom or Charisma.

Er, Goblin Subraces? If you're talking Hobgoblins etc, I'd think that's kind of pushing the definition somewhat. They're essentially seperate species, with common ancestry.

If there are new 'races' of the actual Goblin race somewhere I haven't noticed, though, (really should get round to actually reading mm2.>_>) that's another matter, though still not quite the same thing, really.

[tbarrie]

This pic almost looks to me like they Photoshopped an actual photograph instead of having an artist draw it from scratch.

What, you think they got an actual cow to hold a... um...

...okay, what is that thing?

[Tiki Snakes]

What, you think they got an actual cow to hold a... um...

...okay, what is that thing?

A lamp-post, clearly.
Or possibly just a magical-maul. Nah. Lampost.

[Alteran]

What, you think they got an actual cow to hold a... um...

...okay, what is that thing?

Cowbell? On a stick?

Yeah, probably just a mace of some sorts.

[RTGoodman]

There have also been random rumors about a "shadow" power source, and if so I'd bet we'll see Shadar-Kai as PC races, and classes that could include necromancers and ninja. I'd take this with a pretty heavy grain of salt, though, because it seems like a "Shadow" power source suffers from a lot of the same weaknesses as a "Ki" power source.

I think the D&DI-exclusive Assassin is rumored to be from the Shadow power source. And Shadar-Kai have already had a racial write-up, in Dragon 372. I don't think they'll get another one.

The PHB3 races will almost certainly be Minotaur, Githzerai, Githyanki, Wilden (previewed in Dragon 374), and perhaps one or two more. If the 2010 campaign setting is Dark Sun, then the other possibilities could be Half-Giant and/or Thri-Kreen.

[Mando Knight]

I think the Shadar-Kai will get written into a PHB like the Minotaur will (PHB3) and the Warforged were (EPG).

[RTGoodman]

I think the Shadar-Kai will get written into a PHB like the Minotaur will (PHB3) and the Warforged were (EPG).

Ah, you know, you're right. Forgot about the Minotaur article and haven't bought the actual EPG, so I totally missed that they rereleased the Warforged there. Still they seem more tied to the Shadow power source, assuming it happens, and that might mean PHB4, possibly.

[Shadow_Elf]

Wilden (previewed in Dragon 374).

Huh! I read this statement, then thought "that's interesting, it must have been really obvious but I just skimmed over it." I just sifted through Dragon 374. It doesn't seem to fit into any of the headings. when you say "previewed", do you mean "mentioned", or do you mean they actually got some sort of crunch or flavour exposition? Because I found no evidence of crunch or flavour exposition, and for some reason Ctrl-F wasn't working. Can you tell me anything about them?