3.5 I made a character for fluff reasons who is "feral", but is the feral template br

[Pika...]

Sup. Last night I got some "inspiration" for a kobold character (can post fluff if wanted), and I then remembered that there was a template that was perfect for this fluff (the feral one from savage species). However, after I finished the character's 1 level of rogue/1 level of fighter/1 level of cleric and begun to add the feral template I started to wonder if it was fair for a DM.

I think the stats balance out nicely for a kobold (could have done well without the -2 dex, but the +4 str negating the -4 str of the kobold was nice, but the -4 Int just killed his skill points). I was thinking it wasn't that bad (I loved the claws for his "feral" nature, and wrote it into the fluff. if I ever get to play him he would use them for sneak attacks) until I saw the Fast Healing 2, then I was like "Damn, no Dm will EVER let me play this thought-out character I made ".


What are your thoughts on this?

[JellyPooga]

If you don't think your DM will let the Feral template fly, then don't use it. There's nothing to stop you from playing a feral creature without the Feral template...put a high score into Str, Dex and Con, low Int and Cha, add Improved Unarmed Strike and you have yourself one feral Kobold. Or you could use the varient kobold from the RotD web enhancement that gives them claws and a bite attack in place of IUS.

[kamikasei]

I suggest you post the fluff and the build as it stands.

There's an updated set of kobold racial stats - on the Wizards website I believe - which give them more natural attacks. You may want to just use those to get a more bestial character.

[AstralFire]

The Feral template is far too powerful for its level adjustment when you add in the land speed bonus, AC, natural attacks, special attacks, and special qualities.

While I would look up that web enhancement, I also think Kobolds as player characters deserve a different set of stats - I usually run them with +2 Dex, -2 Con or Str and explain the MM stats as the result of poor nutrition and living habits, particularly the ones kept as slaves.

I do have to wonder what you have in mind for Rogue/Fighter/Cleric 1, though.

[Duke of URL]

If it hasn't been officially errata'd, a common fix for Feral is to allow the HD-based benefits to be based on racial HD (minimum 1). That is, a 4th-level kobold XXX would still only have 1 HD for the purposes of Feral abilities, not 4 HD.

[AstralFire]

Fast healing 2 and all of the other abilities is still a lot for LA +1, even with the kobold's very weak LA +0.

[Pika...]

I suggest you post the fluff and the build as it stands.

There's an updated set of kobold racial stats - on the Wizards website I believe - which give them more natural attacks. You may want to just use those to get a more bestial character.

Ok. Thanks.


Story of Loreat Thric:

Spoiler

Show

Story of Loreat Thric ("Die No" in Draconic)

The story of Loreat Thric is a short, but profound one. Loreat was the runt of a little in a kobold tribe's nursery. Knowing he would eventually be killed by either his siblings, or the keepers he managed fled into the wilderness as soon as he physically could.

What happened next was surprising, for Loreat (who still remained unnamed at the time) somehow managed to survive. Slowly over the years he began to grow more feral. His claws became stronger than that of a normal kobold's, for he needed to use them for everything from tearing bark from trees for kinder, to tearing up rotten logs looking for grobs to eat. Eventually he became stronger, and a skilled survivor. (aka this is where the Feral template comes in)

Although this is only based on Loreat's own words, for there was never anyone there to verify his claims, Loreat claims one day he received a vision of a great and powerful kobold. This kobold called himself Kurtulmak and claimed to be his god and creator. Loreat quickly fell to his knees before this great presence. He claims the great god told him he was finally proud of him, and that he would serve him as a leader of his people. He claims Kurtulmak then granted him current clerical powers and told him to lead a tribe of kobolds into prospurous times and expansion, either by founding his own tribe or taking a weak one by force for weakness among his kind displeases him.

After this this newly enlightened kobold to upon himself the name Loreat Thric, which means "Die No" in Draconic.

He is now on a mission to do as his god demanded, and to "civilize" himself in the process. In addition, he wishes to find his birth tribe, and either take it over or destroy it.

Nearly complete character (Have not done gear, though):

Spoiler

Show

[woodenbandman]

The feral template is too powerful for its listed level adjustment. But applied to your kobold as a means to counteract the strength penalty doesn't strike me as particularly bad. In fact, your net ability score increases will be, like, Strength +2, Dex +4, Con -2, Int -4, Wisdom +4, Charisma -4. That'd make you a terrible rogue and cleric, plus you're small sized.

In my experience, when you play a melee character, your size doesn't really matter all that much. You'd do approximately the same as a small creature than you would as a large creature. Sure, you get better grapple, and longer reach, but a Half-Ogre barbarian 20 and a Halfling Barbarian 20 are pretty much on par in terms of effectiveness.

[Pika...]

I do have to wonder what you have in mind for Rogue/Fighter/Cleric 1, though.

Well, have you ever read the fluff surround the kobold hero-deities (from an older edition Dragon issue, don't have the number right now)? Basically it tells about how great kobold leaders emphasize "heroic cowardness".

For the build I am thinking trying to get up to Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Cleric 3, then take the feat which allows you to prepare domain spells as normal spells, so that he can basically spam Invisibility in himself throughout a battle for the juicy sneak attack damage. To compensate for the loss of rogue levels, I have already take the Craven feat (from Complete Ruin) and Dragonfire Strike (from Dragon Magic), but if you can suggest others that would be great!.

The fighter levels are mostly to toughen him up for his semi-frontlines role, I theorize he would work as.

[Pika...]

<snip>That'd make you a terrible rogue and cleric, plus you're small sized.<snip>

Well, I had not really plan to go further with cleric than was necessary to get the ability to cast the invisibility spells, and perhaps leaving a single slot open for an emergency cure spell (though I would probably just leave all by 1st level spell slots open for that. And no, he would not "share" those spells. They are there to keep him alive in combat.).

[AstralFire]

Well, have you ever read the fluff surround the kobold hero-deities (from an older edition Dragon issue, don't have the number right now)? Basically it tells about how great kobold leaders emphasize "heroic cowardness".

For the build I am thinking trying to get up to Rogue 2/Fighter 2/Cleric 3, then take the feat which allows you to prepare domain spells as normal spells, so that he can basically spam Invisibility in himself throughout a battle for the juicy sneak attack damage. To compensate for the loss of rogue levels, I have already take the Craven feat (from Complete Ruin) and Dragonfire Strike (from Dragon Magic), but if you can suggest others that would be great!.

The fighter levels are mostly to toughen him up for his semi-frontlines role, I theorize he would work as.

You're not a frontliner if you're spamming sneak attack. o.o I would just go Bard or be a rogue with a wand of invis until you can afford a ring of such.

[Pika...]

You're not a frontliner if you're spamming sneak attack. o.o I would just go Bard or be a rogue with a wand of invis until you can afford a ring of such.

I see. I am guessing you don't like the character concept?

[Kylarra]

Barbarian seems like it might be a better choice than fighter, assuming that move increase stacks with the one from feral template.

[AstralFire]

I see. I am guessing you don't like the character concept?

To the contrary, I love kobolds and from a brief scan it looked good - I just didn't have anything to say or add, and I was a bit distracted. :) Just making suggestions to help make your character useful mechanically - there's few disappointments for me like dreaming up a really cool character who's supposed to be useful that's actually not very useful. Found that out the hard way the first session of 3.0 I ever played, when my monk tried to save the party barbarian from a much higher level enemy. o.o

[hamishspence]

Maybe take the Neanderthal statline (Frostburn) and the Human statline, figure out the difference, then use this as a baseline for a Neanderkobold.

If the idea is to create a primitive version of the base kobold, maybe this might work as an alternative to the Feral template?

[Thrawn183]

I'd say that with the loss of BAB you're not broken. I mean, if you're using weapon finesse... then who cares about the strength, and if you're using strength based attacks... well being a kobold counters that pretty completely.

You'll be better at the end of the class progression you provided, but you're eating all your BAB loss at the beginning, so at least initially there definitely shouldn't be a problem.