4e- Divine Power!

[Asbestos]

I got it one day early, envy me.

Anyway, it has a bunch of nice boosts for the Divine classes. Paladins in general get a nice bonus with all the powers that lay down 'divine sanction' which is like divine challenge, but less restrictive. Dragonborn Pallys get a feat that lets them smack it on every enemy targeted by their dragon breath (so now Dragonborn Paladins and Fighters are the best at marking things)

Domains are nice, especially since they allow options for Evil PCs (how un-4e!)

Oh, Clerics get a Channel Divinity that they can take at 1st level instead of Turn Undead and Paladins get to choose between two powers that replace Lay on Hands (one removes status effects, one boosts the paladin's damage/ability to mark things)

[Mnymosene]

How about invokers? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Asbestos]

How about invokers? Inquiring minds want to know.

They get the Covenant of Malediction which allows them to push a target hit by an encounter or daily divine power 1 square. In addition you get Maledictor's Doom, a minor action encounter power that puts a -1 to attack and saving throws on enemies in blast 5. As well, Invokers have a Close burst or blast attack at every level.

[RTGoodman]

I'm SO jealous right now. I've managed to get my last three 4E books anywhere from one to three days early, but neither of the B&N's I've gone to in the past two days have had it out yet.

I'm REALLY looking forward to the Divine Sanction Paladin, though, since Paladin is one of my favorite archetypes and the PHB version is so... mediocre. (To me, at least.)

[Asbestos]

I'm SO jealous right now. I've managed to get my last three 4E books anywhere from one to three days early, but neither of the B&N's I've gone to in the past two days have had it out yet.

I'm REALLY looking forward to the Divine Sanction Paladin, though, since Paladin is one of my favorite archetypes and the PHB version is so... mediocre. (To me, at least.)

Really any Paladin can get something that applies Divine Sanction, the one feature just lets some do it even more.

[valadil]

Dragonborn Pallys get a feat that lets them smack it on every enemy targeted by their dragon breath (so now Dragonborn Paladins and Fighters are the best at marking things)

You've made my pally very happy :)

[Break]

Anything notable for Avengers, or are they still basically required to multiclass due to poor powers?

[Asbestos]

Anything notable for Avengers, or are they still basically required to multiclass due to poor powers?

Maybe? They do have a bunch more powers. The Censure of Unity has some nice leadery powers and helps shore up the Avenger's greatest weakness (imo); needing to deal with enemies 1v1 while everyone does something else. The feature allows you to get a +1 bonus to damage for each ally adjacent to your oath of enmity target, poor Solos.

[Asbestos]

As a sidenote, there are a lot of side bars (in addition to a chapter) with fluff about the gods. After reading the sidebar on the "Rise of the Raven Queen", one has to wonder how she isn't Evil.

[Tiki Snakes]

As a sidenote, there are a lot of side bars (in addition to a chapter) with fluff about the gods. After reading the sidebar on the "Rise of the Raven Queen", one has to wonder how she isn't Evil.

^_^
Decided; I'm not waiting till wednesday. If it's in, I buy it.

[Gralamin]

My Preorder better get here soon. This is a highly anticipated book.

[Asbestos]

^_^
Decided; I'm not waiting till wednesday. If it's in, I buy it.

Well, the chapter about the gods is really about how the various divine classes to those gods work into that particular faith. The sidebars are fluff-tastic though. The Raven Queen's is the largest one I noticed, its about half a page, and it isn't like she isn't mentioned in other sidebars either. Apparently she took the death domain from none other than Nerull

[RTGoodman]

Apparently she took the death domain from none other than Nerull

I knew that from some other source, but I'm just wondering if there's any evidence in the rumors I've heard elsewhere online in the past that she's actual Wee Jas, another Sorceress with a focus on Death. I personally don't believe that's the "real" story, but that's mostly because I preferred Nerull as my go-to Death God in 3.x.

[Gralamin]

I knew that from some other source, but I'm just wondering if there's any evidence in the rumors I've heard elsewhere online in the past that she's actual Wee Jas, another Sorceress with a focus on Death. I personally don't believe that's the "real" story, but that's mostly because I preferred Nerull as my go-to Death God in 3.x.

Your other source is likely the Manual of the Planes.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Actually Wizards leaked that sidebar as part of their previews for Divine Power. From my understanding, it's changed a lot of players' attitudes about the Raven Queen.

[Nai_Calus]

So besides the sodding Raven Bimbo getting played up even frakking more(Which we already knew from a preview, but yeah whoopty of course she has the biggest sidebar), about how much fluff did they bother to come up with on the other gods? Specifically Corellon, since it would be nice to have something more to differentiate him from the original Corellon other than 'Uh he's unaligned instead of Chaotic Good and he didn't create the elven race from his blood'.

I also think that their definition of 'Unaligned' includes fairly decent amounts of shades of Good and Evil. RQ comes off as somewhat evil, what little is described of Corellon comes off as somewhat good(Yeah not wanting evil stuff in your realm is totally not picking a side in good vs evil, not at all), 4e alignment is doofy.

I'd go look for a copy to scan over today, but the nearest place to me that actually sells D&D books is over an hour away.

[Burley]

I also think that their definition of 'Unaligned' includes fairly decent amounts of shades of Good and Evil. RQ comes off as somewhat evil, what little is described of Corellon comes off as somewhat good(Yeah not wanting evil stuff in your realm is totally not picking a side in good vs evil, not at all), 4e alignment is doofy.

Even an evil king would want to keep his people under his control, and would want to keep other evils away. Evil inviting evil is a way to get your back stabbed.

[Hzurr]

Your other source is likely the Manual of the Planes.

Yep, there's a bit of fluff in MotP (page 111) about a place called "Pluton, the Gray Waste" that used to be the domain of Nerull. There was a mortal sorcerer queen who died that Nerull wanted to be his consort, but instead she lead a rebellion against him, and the other gods made her a deity of death (but not a deity of the dead, so that they wouldn't repeat what had happened with Nerull)

[Klivian]

OOTS made it into divine power! Check the ritual section, Mark of Justice!

[Grynning]

I got mine at a midnight release, so I've had a chance to read through a couple times now. I like a lot of the book, but I was disappointed with some things.

Most notably, the Avenger PP's are a bit schizophrenic, as if some of them were written by people without a firm grasp of how the class works, and some of them are just mechanically bad. Someone seems to have gotten hung up on certain mechanics and there's a lot of overlap in the abilities (tons of self healing and self damaging, with one PP having a cripplingly awful utility power that deals 3d6 damage to YOU whenever someone hits your Oath target, and two more with utilities from other PP's that damage you if you miss).

Also, Strength based clerics are going to be miffed once again. While there is a lot more support power wise, out of the 10 PP's in the book for clerics, only 2 of them have Strength based powers, and one of them requires you to be a Dwarf. Considering that none of the PP's in the PHB support Str clerics either, it's pretty clear that the build is not favored by the designers.

On the upside, domains are neat, it is now possible to build a cleric who never directly deals damage, and there are some really cool Paragons and ED's for everyone else. Overall not a bad purchase, but not everything I was hoping for.

Edit: On the subject of funny ability names, with the way the naming scheme for domain feats work, there is now an official ability called "The Power of Love." I enjoyed that.

[Mando Knight]

OOTS made it into divine power! Check the ritual section, Mark of Justice!

Mark of Justice is in both Divine Power and OotS because it was already in previous version(s) of D&D... in fact, it's in the 3.5 SRD.

[Asbestos]

Mark of Justice is in both Divine Power and OotS because it was already in previous version(s) of D&D... in fact, it's in the 3.5 SRD.

And honestly the 4e version is hella nerfed. I mean, its effects go away after 24 hours. Easy enough to fix via houseruling, but still.

[Gralamin]

Divine Power, overall is very nice. Its in my top 3 books, easy, since it makes part of core actually work.

[ocato]

It gave Avengers some neat new options. I feel like Retribution Avengers got a few nice boosts in the form of more powers that allow them to take a healing surge or mitigate damage, which works very nice if you're the type to provoke a few opportunity attacks to increase your damage on your Oath. As early as L2 you can pick up a utility that gives you resist 5 to everything as an interrupt until your next turn. At L2, that pretty much nullifies minions and takes the teeth out of many enemies (except those d10+9 guard drakes, et al).

The Unity Avenger seems nice in situations where your party is melee heavy and very coordinated. I'm not surprised that they went for less of a loner for the third path due to the degree to which Avengers stood out in a teamwork oriented system.

My complaint about Malediction Invokers is that most of their powers aren't really impressive enough to merit the repercussions. Maybe I haven't read closely enough, but I felt very underwhelmed by that path. On the up side, (Wrathful) Invokers got quite a few nice powers in the form of big bursts that target enemies only and zones. Damaging Zones +wrath powers that push and/or mark of storms means you can make a very powerful (damage dealing) controller who doesn't slack on his main job of making the DM cry.

The new cleric material allows for the creation of a classic buff/healbot cleric who doesn't really do any damage. While the sheer output of buffs and heals is probably more staggering than we've yet to fully grasp, I'm mildly wary of the idea of a cleric with no attacks. Granted, I play a Bravelord who spends quite a few actions passing attacks to allies, so I suppose it might not be quite as underwhelming as I think.

Paladins can smash and Paladins can tank. The world is set right. Rejoice in the name of Pelor.

[Gralamin]

It gave Avengers some neat new options. I feel like Retribution Avengers got a few nice boosts in the form of more powers that allow them to take a healing surge or mitigate damage, which works very nice if you're the type to provoke a few opportunity attacks to increase your damage on your Oath. As early as L2 you can pick up a utility that gives you resist 5 to everything as an interrupt until your next turn. At L2, that pretty much nullifies minions and takes the teeth out of many enemies (except those d10+9 guard drakes, et al).

I actually didn't like most of the Avenger powers. Most do nothing to promote the enemy into activating your Censure. If your a pursuit Avenger you want your target to run from you, after all.

The Unity Avenger seems nice in situations where your party is melee heavy and very coordinated. I'm not surprised that they went for less of a loner for the third path due to the degree to which Avengers stood out in a teamwork oriented system.

It also gives Avengers the ability to really fight Solos, which is nice.

My complaint about Malediction Invokers is that most of their powers aren't really impressive enough to merit the repercussions. Maybe I haven't read closely enough, but I felt very underwhelmed by that path. On the up side, (Wrathful) Invokers got quite a few nice powers in the form of big bursts that target enemies only and zones. Damaging Zones +wrath powers that push and/or mark of storms means you can make a very powerful (damage dealing) controller who doesn't slack on his main job of making the DM cry.

I agree completely.

The new cleric material allows for the creation of a classic buff/healbot cleric who doesn't really do any damage. While the sheer output of buffs and heals is probably more staggering than we've yet to fully grasp, I'm mildly wary of the idea of a cleric with no attacks. Granted, I play a Bravelord who spends quite a few actions passing attacks to allies, so I suppose it might not be quite as underwhelming as I think.

Paladins can smash and Paladins can tank. The world is set right. Rejoice in the name of Pelor.

Exactly.

Also, a cross post from the CO boards:

Sanctified Touch (24th level): When you enable a creature adjacent to you to spend a healing surge, the recipient can also make a saving throw. When you grant a saving throw to a creature adjacent to you, that creature can also spend a healing surge. When you use the Heal skill, any creature you grant a saving throw or stabilize with a successful Heal check can spend a healing surge.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems you can pull off the following:
Step 1) Grant an adjacent creature a HS or saving throw
Step 2) Use Sanctified Touch to enable them to spend a healing surge (Note they don't actually have to spend it, just have the option) if you started with a saving throw, or grant them a save if you started with a Healing Surge.
Step 3) Use Sanctified Touch on the bonus you just granted, they now get the other.
Step 4) Repeat until target has saved against everything its possible to save against.

I'm not entirely sure if this works, but if it does, its a nice way to get infinite saves.

[TheEmerged]

Got mine today. Still going through it at the moment; I didn't quite understand how the domains worked on my first read-thru (dummy me thought those feats were automatic additions at first). This is probably the part that involves me the most, since my campaign world uses its own religions and I need to make decisions about relative to this. I know the party cleric is going to be interested too.

[Corvus]

Only just started looking through, and from a purely Invoker point of view.

I'm a little disappointed that for my just started Dwarf Invoker of Wrath that the cleric PP Radiant Servant still seems the best PP to take if going heavily down the radiant/fire route. The new Invoker PPs can't match that 19-20 crit chance on radiant attacks and that tasty burst 8 radiant explosion (plus having some healing on the side never hurts).

The really fun thing for Wrath Invokers is that they can pick up 3 feats that trigger off radiant crits now at epic level. Font of Radiance (PHB1) causes the target to glow and leave behind burst 1 pools of light doing 3d6 radiant damage to any enemy that ends it turns in the zone. Punishing Radiance (DP) causes the target and each enemy within 5 squares to gain 10 radiant vulnerability (EOYNT). And Devastating Invocation causes each enemy within 5 squares of the target to take 5+WIS mod damage equal to the type of damage caused to the target.

Equally amusing is what can be done with Armour of Wrath. As a dwarf you can add WIS mod damage to any target you hit with it larger than you. You can add fire keyword to it as well as the radiant keyword AND cause targets to get -1 to saves (EOYNT) for one feat. PHB2 allows you to knock prone any target you hit with it at paragon level. Paragon level in DP gives a feat doing extra damage if it hits only one target (1D6 at 11th, 2D6 at 21st). Hang on, but it only targets one creature doesn't it? Until you hit epic that is and can pick up Indiscriminate Wrath, which hits all enemies in the burst - which naturally can be increased in size by PHB2's Invoked Devastation.

So you wander into the middle of the enemy, let yourself get hit and explode, automatically causing some fire &/or radiant damage to every enemy in a decent range and knocking them prone. As an immediate reaction. Fun :)

[Starsinger]

Only just started looking through, and from a purely Invoker point of view.

I'm a little disappointed that for my just started Dwarf Invoker of Wrath that the cleric PP Radiant Servant still seems the best PP to take if going heavily down the radiant/fire route. The new Invoker PPs can't match that 19-20 crit chance on radiant attacks and that tasty burst 8 radiant explosion (plus having some healing on the side never hurts).

Not the silver flame one from Eberron?

[Corvus]

Don't have Eberron - what does that PP do?

[Grynning]

Also, a cross post from the CO boards:

I see this being errata'ed very quickly, along with a few other poorly worded abilities in the book. The editing job on this one was not what I would call up to par.

For example:
Holy Ardor, p. 20. Doesn't state that the attack still has to hit, just that double 1's don't crit. So theoretically an Avenger could get a critical hit by rolling double 2's without that caveat.

Relentless Slayer, p. 24. Doesn't actually select a Slayer's Enemy as one of the paragon's features, even though there's a sidebar on it and the level 11 ability that keys off of it. D'oh.

Also I expect a few things may get nerfed, like Blood of the Mighty (level 1 daily for Paladins that does 4W in exchange for eating a measly 5 damage).

I'm still most annoyed with the Avenger section of the book, but I will echo the above comments on Covenant of Malediction. They really shouldn't have even bothered with it, I can't think of any reason to use it over the other two Invoker paths.