Prestige classes for sorcerers?

[Kzickas]

What are good prestige classes for a sorcerer?
Looking for some more versatility and some cool class features
Shouldn't lose more than 1 or 2 levels of casting
Can't need more than 5 sorcerer levels to qualify

[#Raptor]

Can't need more than 5 sorcerer levels to qualify

That one will be hard. Most caster PrC's require level 3 spells, wich the sorcerer doesn't get before level 6... well, unless you are a white dragonspawn and buy off the LA, from what I understand.

Mage of the Arcane Order got everything you want though. Can't qualify for that one before lvl 6 anyway unless you're a human/stronghearth halfling or play with flaws, as a sorcerer needs 3 feats to enter.

[Gnaeus]

Sand Shaper (first 8 levels)? (Sandstorm)

Entry with caster level 5, loses only 1 spell level, adds a bunch of spells to your list known and has some class features.

[Kzickas]

Sand Shaper (first 8 levels)? (Sandstorm)

Entry with caster level 5, loses only 1 spell level, adds a bunch of spells to your list known and has some class features.

That was what I was planning but then i realized that sorcerers can't meet the skill requirements by level 5

[Totally Guy]

If you take a level of monk you might be eligible for the Enlightened fist class. But over that path you eventally lose 3 caster levels. Plus you have to enjoy delivering touch attacks to see any real benefit.

[#Raptor]

Found one...

Runesmith.
Its... really far from great for a sorcerer. In fact, from what I can tell its completely useless. You need to be dwarf (doesn't hurt QUITE that much when you pick a gold dwarf, but still...), you need to waste a bunch of skillpoints and you need to blow 2 feats on it. Then you gain a class feature that screams "wizard only!!!" But you can enter after 5 sorcerer levels. Horray? Personally, if I'm gonna be a dwarf, I'll take him to sorc level 9 for the racial substitution level.

I've been wondering... why is entering before level 6 so important to you anyway? I'd rather take a good prc at level 7 than a meciocre/sucky one at 6. Well, unless you don't have to pay for it.

I've been looking for a good sorcerer prc that can be entered before level 5 too for a while, but didn't find any.

[AslanCross]

I think the main problem with qualifying for full caster PrCs by level 5 is that well, Sorcerers are delayed a level when it comes to attaining spell levels. I found this rather frustrating when I was building sorcerers with PrCs. As such, for many PrCs that require 3rd level spells, Sorcerers have to wait until Lv 6.

[Kzickas]

because the game starts at level 6, and I want to have at least one level of the prc by then. It's not a combat heavy game so optimization's not that important.

[Talya]

Like all the others, this requires 3rd level spells, but the Heartwarder PrC from Forgotten Realms Faiths & Pantheons is rather good, despite the horrible feat requirements. (The feat requirements would pretty much keep you from it before getting that level 6 feat anyway--dodge, mobility, spell focus: enchantment, and whip proficiency.)

[Triaxx]

Talk to the DM about any classes that would require the sixth-level feat. Most are willing to let you take the class if your sixth level feat is the requirement for it. I do.

[Zeful]

I've been wondering... why is entering before level 6 so important to you anyway? I'd rather take a good prc at level 7 than a meciocre/sucky one at 6. Well, unless you don't have to pay for it.

*sigh*
Because Sorcerers/Wizards have "no reason not to take PrCs because all they lose is familiar advancement, which isn't losing anything important".

[#Raptor]

*sigh*
Because Sorcerers/Wizards have "no reason not to take PrCs because all they lose is familiar advancement, which isn't losing anything important".

I'm astonished by your unique insights. lol.

Show me a decent sorcerer PrC except MotAO that can be entered at level 6 without white dragonspawn & LA buyoff, then I'll see a point in PrCing at 6.

And you don't loose familiar advancement btw. You've traded that off for metamagic specialist, unless its core only. In this case, gl and hf PrCing that sorcerer.

/E: And to add something to the actual topic at hand.
Ask your DM about flaws or if he'll handle it like Triaxx and if he does... you can go MotAO at 6, wich removes one of the sorcerers major drawbacks, giving him increased versatility.
You need to pick 2 bad feats, but you'll get em back. The bonus languages are meh, but hey they come for free. Usually take it to level 7 (Spellpool 3) or 9 (secound feat) before going into the next PrC.

[Zeful]

I'm astonished by your unique insights. lol.

Show me a decent sorcerer PrC except MotAO that can be entered at level 6 without white dragonspawn & LA buyoff, then I'll see a point in PrCing at 6.

And you don't loose familiar advancement btw. You've traded that off for metamagic specialist, unless its core only. In this case, gl and hf PrCing that sorcerer.

I hate optimization and optimizers with a passion. Thus I find the line in quotes to be an insufficient reason for PrCing out.

Core only is base class only as PrCs are a variant of the core game (chapter 6, where you find PrC, is stated to be a variant chapter). So a sorcerer is the fourth most powerful class in the game (Druid, Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer).

[Saph]

I like the Ruathar PrC from Races of the Wild, personally. Fluff-wise it's interesting, and it gives a variety of useful minor benefits. It's the 'elf-friend' PrC, so obviously, it only works if you like elves.

A sorcerer can enter it at level 6, which is a good point to leave the Sorcerer base class (Sorc 5 to Sorc 6 gives you +1 to BAB and all saves, while Sorc 6 to Sorc 7 gives you almost nothing).

- Saph

[#Raptor]

@Zeful:
I'm of the opinion that to some degree everyone optimizes. Even with people more focussed on RP, its rare to see them without at least semi-decent feat choices. Most players pick human for a race, wich is the strongest of the PHB races for most classes. Has been a while since I saw a barbarian with a higher int than str too.

But hey, ok. Whatever. But if you hate optimization, what are you doing in a thread that essentially is about optimizing? It certainly wasn't "answering my question". The Topic starter already did that.

[Gnaeus]

That was what I was planning but then i realized that sorcerers can't meet the skill requirements by level 5

Yes you can. 4 skill points for rank 2 at first level, then 1/2 per level after that, gives you rank 4 at level 5. If you are human or have 12 int you still have points left over for your Concentration.

Now, whether your DM will let you have the Touchstone feat at level 3 is an open question.

[oxinabox]

well in a literal reading (or maybe misreading) of your first post:
Mystic Theurge!
You can get it at sorcerer 4!

of courses you would also need at least 3 lvl is an divine casting class.

mystic thurge is weak at first, llosing a spell level at low levals is harsh. but once you get to highter ones. it's hardly noticables, honest.
it's effectivly lost of 3 spell leval, to gain double your versatility.

other than that...
Oooh! Oooh!
Wizard lvls!, that's a great PrC!
well it isn't, but it will improve your power, like a presige class would
And it'll kill your dm.
and maybe breaky you mind with the spell lists if your disorganised.

[Kzickas]

I'm probably going to go for Dread Witch in heroes of horror, but thanks to everyone for your help

[Telonius]

You may pass out from the stink of cheese, but Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage will qualify you most of what you might want.

[Kzickas]

You may pass out from the stink of cheese, but Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold with Draconic Rite of Passage will qualify you most of what you might want.

Thanks, but it's phb races only

[oxinabox]

ooh! cheese, any crackers?
Here some lighter, but equally pungent cheese
there is almost no downside to instead of taking your first lvl as a WhiteDragonspawn.
it's +1 LA
but allows you to cast as a lvl 1 sorcerer, which stacks with real sorcerer lvls.

and you look cool and dracoinic.
it does have some minor side powers, fluff only.

Spoiler

Show

A decent Breathweopon

like a fly speed at double your base speed. nothing most lvl one humans don't have i'm sure.
oh and a minor
+2 dex
+2 con

[Kantur]

A potential option if you're willing to take a few wizard levels: Ultimate Magus (CMage).

Requires a metamagic feat, Knowedge (Arcana) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks, 2nd level arcane spells from spellbook based casting and 1st level spontaneous arcane. If it helps, think of the wizard casting not as wizard levels but metamagic fuel.

And apart from the 3 wizard levels (Unless you get to use one of the various tricks to get the prepared casting early), it's full Sorcerer progression (As it'll be slightly behind and a few levels advance only the lower level arcane class' progression).

[#Raptor]

ooh! cheese, any crackers?
Here some lighter, but equally pungent cheese
there is almost no downside to instead of taking your first lvl as a WhiteDragonspawn.
it's +1 LA
but allows you to cast as a lvl 1 sorcerer, which stacks with real sorcerer lvls.

and you look cool and dracoinic.
it does have some minor side powers, fluff only.

Spoiler

Show

A decent Breathweopon

like a fly speed at double your base speed. nothing most lvl one humans don't have i'm sure.
oh and a minor
+2 dex
+2 con

True, then you qualify as a lvl 5 sorcerer for PrCs that need level 3 casting - and the templace certainly is great stuff. But you are still a level 6 character (1 LA/5 sorcerer) before you qualify for the lvl 3 casting PrCs. So I don't think its what hes going for.

But heres a idea.
Use white dragonspawn together with dread witch, then buy off the LA. You're now a sorcerer 4/dread witch 1 with the same casting as a sorcerer 5. And you'll quickly catch up to the rest of the group.

[ericgrau]

One thing to consider when picking sorcerer PrC's: find reasonable pre-reqs. It seems like sorcerers have nothing to lose from a PrC until you find out you're blowing all your feats and some of your spell selection just to meet the entry requirements. Then you can't take any feats nor many spells that you want. In fact, I'd rather have a good late level PrC when you have more feats & spells to meet the pre-reqs than a lousy early level PrC where you struggle giving up all you've got for minimal gain.

[mikeejimbo]

(Druid, Wizard, Cleric, Sorcerer).

I thought it was Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer. I thought that if a Wizard tried really hard, he could beat a Druid.

I guess it depends on the levels, too though. I don't think anything beats a 17th+ level Wizard.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Have you considered Eldritch Theurge? Warlock invocations + spellcasting = win.

[quick_comment]

Dread witch is pretty awesome, because it has the only method in the game of bursting through fear immunity.

Also, you can get anima mage with binder 1/sorcerer 4.

[DragoonWraith]

I hate optimization and optimizers with a passion. Thus I find the line in quotes to be an insufficient reason for PrCing out.

While I find your "hatred" as borderline offensive, I would point out that this is not about optimization - it's about doing something with your levels.

Look, many people enjoy the "character creation" aspect of D&D as much or more than actually playing. How many people dozens of characters they never play? Lots. And it's not about optimization. It's about cool, and about doing different things.

And the problem is that Sorcerers do not do anything after level 1. They get spell casting, and that is it (barring familiar advancement, which I do because everyone I've ever played with forgets about their familiar more often than not). The Sorcerer has no class features, not even the Wizard's bonus feats. There is nothing to gain from staying in the class.

So ultimately, one PrC's out of Sorcerer because staying as a Sorcerer is boring.

Eric Grau is right. A lot of times, the entry requirements for PrC's is rough on a Sorcerer and they actually lose more than they gain. I certainly did by going Sorcerer/Human Paragon/Loremaster/Archmage - a couple of bonuses to saves, +2 to one ability, and the sort-of cool High Arcana, at the cost of four feats, four Divination spells I'll never use (and at least one other that I wouldn't have taken otherwise, even though it is good), and a lost caster level? But at least I wasn't spending 20 levels in the boring Sorcerer class.

[Deliverance]

well in a literal reading (or maybe misreading) of your first post:
Mystic Theurge!
You can get it at sorcerer 4!

of courses you would also need at least 3 lvl is an divine casting class.

Riight. In that case, let him go Sorcerer/Favoured Soul/Mystic Theurge for super spontaneous spamming of low-to-mid level spells for the first many, many, levels. :D

Wonderful roleplaying possibilities from such a character but probably of very low worth in any campaign based primarily on combat.

[Oslecamo]

*sigh*
Because Sorcerers/Wizards have "no reason not to take PrCs because all they lose is familiar advancement, which isn't losing anything important".

Actually, if one is an avid powergamer, prestige classing and multiclassing properly will always result in a stronger character than if you had just taken the vanilla class.

It doesn't apply only to sorcerors and wizards, but to everybody else

The artificer is almost an exception, because by level 15 you can craft pretty much anything, so you can swap the last five levels for something cheesy.