Clueless on Races

[VirOath]

I've seen mentions to how Kobolds and Elans are... imbalanced for 0 LA and 0 HD. I don't see how this is possible, really.

Could someone please explain this?

[herrhauptmann]

For Elans, I believe it is partly the fact that they get some huge bonuses when using powerpoints on particular manifestation.
Like burning power points to avoid damage: Normal might be 1 pp for 1 HP. But elans will get 1 pp for 2 HP.

(Note, I haven't read the elan entry recently, so the bonus is along those lines. Even if it isn't the example i just named.)

Kobolds, probably how with the right template you can gain access to epic feats because you count as an ancient dragon. You know, the basis to a punpun build.

[RTGoodman]

Kobolds, probably how with the right template you can gain access to epic feats because you count as an ancient dragon. You know, the basis to a punpun build.

Alternatively, they get terribly bad stats otherwise, meaning they're VERY weak for a LA +0 race.

Elans I've never had a problem with. I always thought probably the most powerful LA +0 races were the lesser planetouched (LA +0 versions of Aasimar and Tiefling, from the FRCS) and your standard Dwarf and Human. Also, Whisper Gnome is good for LA +0; so good, in fact, that I went a long time assuming it was LA +1.

[lsfreak]

My understanding is that for elans, it's the aberration type. Makes you immune to much of the nastier effects out there, and makes things like alter self/polymorph even stupider.

For kobolds, they've got 3 more armor at 1st level than most other races (size + Dex + natural armor), which at 1st level is big. Their stat penalties don't matter when they make excellent sorcerers. The biggest thing, though, is dragonwrought + advanced age... since they don't progress in age as other humanoids, it's argued you don't take aging penalties and can therefore have +3 to all mental stats with no other negatives. Oh, and they can now take epic feats at level 1.
Provided you don't delve into the advanced-age stuff, they're still one of the most powerful LA+0 races because they have no negatives as a caster.

[Eldan]

Yes, one of the main reason for the elans is the aberration type: a simple alter self can get utterly ridiculous that way. They can assume the shape of enormously powerful creatures and get, as an example, very high natural armor.

Also, as psions, they can reduce the damage they take by a lot, but that's not really all that overpowered.

[Sinfire Titan]

Elans: The Aberration type is the broken part. The rest of it is rather sucky.


Kobolds; Races of the Dragon's Web Enhancement, RotD itself, the ability to become the Dragon type for access to Polymorph BS, the fact that they technically count as True Dragons allowing them to qualify for Wyrm or War and Loredrake, Pun-Pun in general. Take your freaking pick.

[herrhauptmann]

I forgot about Elans being an aberration.
That makes them immune to many effects at low level that would be a save/lose. Like Hold person or charm.

And then there's 'alter self'. Isn't that now part of the polymorph subschool?

[Sinfire Titan]

I forgot about Elans being an aberration.
That makes them immune to many effects at low level that would be a save/lose. Like Hold person or charm.

And then there's 'alter self'. Isn't that now part of the polymorph subschool?

It doesn't follow the same rules. That errata doesn't apply to the PHB, for some odd reason.

[Yora]

For kobolds, they've got 3 more armor at 1st level than most other races (size + Dex + natural armor), which at 1st level is big. Their stat penalties don't matter when they make excellent sorcerers. The biggest thing, though, is dragonwrought + advanced age... since they don't progress in age as other humanoids, it's argued you don't take aging penalties and can therefore have +3 to all mental stats with no other negatives. Oh, and they can now take epic feats at level 1.

But that's still either cheating or exploiting, call it as you like. It's clearly not at all what was intended.

[ZeroNumerous]

It's clearly not at all what was intended.

'Cept for the fact that it very clearly shows an age chart with corresponding dragon ages, draconomicon clearly spells out that Ancient Dragons are considered Epic regardless of their HD and that Dragonwrought clearly allows you to ignore aging penalties. Every bit of those things were intended, there just wasn't any oversight as to how those things interact.

[FMArthur]

Elans have a couple of good racial feats, too. One power point for +6 to all saves for a round seems like overkill to me. Without the feat it's still +4. Or spending one power point for every four points of damage you negate. Both are immediate actions to activate. Neither are outright game-breaking, but with that and your aberration type, it means that you are preposterously difficult to harm with spells at low level and you can choose to take very little direct damage as well. If you do it all the time you will eat up your power points too fast to be useful throughout the day, but until you are completely out of pp, you will almost always have the option to just say "no, I am unaffected" when attacked in nearly any way. I just leap for joy when the only means of putting an elan psion player in danger is to have people gang up on him, which is going to be unfair to any character, and still less so for elans.

Kobolds are beloved by many for their underpoweredness in their unmodified form. This web enhancement for Races of the Dragon simply adds optional racial abilities without taking anything away, because the race is normally underpowered. Sleight Build lets them be treated as a size smaller for opposed checks, which is great but still pales in comparison to whisper gnomes and other powerful races. The Dragonwrought 1st level feat throws a wrench into the mix, allowing +3 to mental stats for being venerable, plus even greater powers thanks to being a true dragon (epic feats and such). I would actually allow the venerable-dragonwrought trick alone for the stat improvement but nothing beyond that.

[Sinfire Titan]

Elans have a couple of good racial feats, too. One power point for +6 to all saves for a round seems like overkill to me. Without the feat it's still +4. Or spending one power point for every four points of damage you negate. Both are immediate actions to activate. Neither are outright game-breaking, but with that and your aberration type, it means that you are preposterously difficult to harm with spells at low level and you can choose to take very little direct damage as well. If you do it all the time you will eat up your power points too fast to be useful throughout the day, but until you are completely out of pp, you will almost always have the option to just say "no, I am unaffected" when attacked in nearly any way. I just leap for joy when the only means of putting an elan psion player in danger is to have people gang up on him, which is going to be unfair to any character, and still less so for elans.

The Elan's ability is limited to the next save you make, not all. Getting targeted twice in one round? Sucks to be you...

[FMArthur]

The Elan's ability is limited to the next save you make, not all. Getting targeted twice in one round? Sucks to be you...

"Resistance (Su): Elans can use psionic energy to increase their resistance to various forms of attack. As an immediate action, an elan can spend 1 power point to gain a +4 racial bonus on saving throws until the beginning of her next action." - Expanded Psionics Handbook.

The Complete Psionic feat, Elan Resistance, Enhanced does not significantly alter the wording. This is activated as an immediate action, so you don't need to anticipate the action forcing the save, just be aware of it as it happens, then you gain the benefit for the rest of the round. Damage is the way to break an elan's safety net, not forcing saves. And if your race's weakness is being ganged up on by multiple foes, I think there's something a little wrong.

[HamHam]

Kobolds, probably how with the right template you can gain access to epic feats because you count as an ancient dragon. You know, the basis to a punpun build.

Dragonwrought cheese has nothing to do with punpun. At all.

[quick_comment]

Dont forget strongheart halflings.

Basically humans, but trade the extra skill point per level for +1 AC, +1 attack and reduced speed. They make awesome casters because casters have no need for feet or reach.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Kobolds aren't unbalanced, they're oddly balanced. They're great in some situations, but weak in others. They're one of the few races which feels different in-play from the PHB ones. +3 AC over a human, 30' speed though small, and Darkvision are cancelled out and then some by a net -4 to stats. The Web Enhancement for RotD helps them out and brings them closer to balanced by adding Slight Build and a Claw/Claw/Bite attack routine.

That said, there are a couple of exploits involving them(Pun-Pun, Venerable Dragonwrought, Loredrake) which combined with their odd stats and a couple of Kobold-only abilities(Slight Build, Dragonwrought, Greater Draconic Rite, the Kobold Domain) has led to the line "Kobolds do everything better" being common in some circles. Non-cheesed, they're balanced or underpowered, cheesed(and there's a difference between cheesed and optimized) they're the best race in D&D.