[3.5] Mountain Plate, eh?

[Choco]

Alright, I am looking at some Mountain Plate here... 225lbs, 10AC, 0 max dex, 10ft move, and an ACP of 9.

I know that with feat/materials/enchantment cheese you could get an almost weightless set of Mountain Plate that counts as light armor, has an astronomical max dex, and a very low, possibly non-existant, ACP.

However, those who originally designed the armor (thinking in game here, not game designers) probably were not thinking it would be used that way, so I got this question that's been bugging me.

WHO exactly is this type of armor made for? What medium race has the average strength to be able to use this monstrosity effectively? And geez, that's 225lb just for the ARMOR, that of course don't count weapons and shields. My guess is that someone using this type of armor would likely be guarding underground fortresses or something, so he/she/it would not carry a full set of adventuring equipment, at least I don't think so...

[quick_comment]

Its not battle armor, its dwarven ceremonial armor

[Eloel]

It's most likely made for Goliaths...
(Mountain theme, high weight, inexistent Dex. Sounds like it.)

Druids also have their ways with it. A Wild Mountain Plate gives you NO penalties (doesn't even weigh anything) whatsoever when wildshaped, but gives +10 AC. Stack bonuses at your leasure.

[Choco]

I can see the ceremonial armor part, that would make this easy

Goliaths I can see as well, except I am willing to bet it would only be usable by the strongest among even them.

[Blackjackg]

Remember, you don't incur extra penalties, above and beyond the armor penalties, for encumbrance. So a character would only have to be Str 16 to wear the armor as a heavy load without extra penalty. At Str 18, they can get an extra 75 lbs of equipment, which should cover weapons and shields handily.

[arkol]

Goliaths I can see as well, except I am willing to bet it would only be usable by the strongest among even them.

Remember, you don't incur extra penalties, above and beyond the armor penalties, for encumbrance. So a character would only have to be Str 16 to wear the armor as a heavy load without extra penalty. At Str 18, they can get an extra 75 lbs of equipment, which should cover weapons and shields handily.

At +4 str, 16str goliaths are rather common even among npcs.

[Eloel]

An average Goliath (with 15 Str) carries that as a medium load. I slightly strong Goliath (Elite array, get 15 in Str, for 19) carries that as a light load, with 7-8lb left to spare. Since it's heavy armor, medium load actually makes no difference.
A strong (18+4=22) Goliath carries it, and has 110lb to spare.

[Choco]

Remember, you don't incur extra penalties, above and beyond the armor penalties, for encumbrance. So a character would only have to be Str 16 to wear the armor as a heavy load without extra penalty. At Str 18, they can get an extra 75 lbs of equipment, which should cover weapons and shields handily.

Ah, I missed that part...

Still, with the movement penalty, really only of use to someone guarding a thin passageway, so fits the underground theme perfectly.

[Eloel]

That's the same with full-plate, you get the exact same movement penalties.

[Choco]

That's the same with full-plate, you get the exact same movement penalties.

Mountain Plate has a 10ft move, I could have sworn full plate was a 20... unless I missed that too

[Eloel]

I missed Mountain Plate I guess. Oops. Isn't it Heavy Armor (thus 20ft) like every other armor?

[Choco]

It is an exotic heavy armor, so they changed some things apparently.

[quick_comment]

I missed Mountain Plate I guess. Oops. Isn't it Heavy Armor (thus 20ft) like every other armor?

Yeah, but it specifically says its 10ft.

[Blackjackg]

Yeah, but it specifically says its 10ft.

Plus, it specifically states that it affects dwarves too, which other armors don't.

[herrhauptmann]

That's why I like interlocking plate :)
If you move 5 ft or less, your AC goes up by 2.
And if you decide to play a dwarven defender, well, your first few levels of that class, you won't be able to move anyway while in your stance. :)
Stack on some deep rift defender, extra bonuses in cramped spaces...

But yeah, without a haversack for loot, someone in mountain plate can be in a LOT of trouble for movement. Even if they get a custom item of continuous haste, they're still obscenely slow.

[Benejeseret]

What about mithral mountain plate?

Is there any mechanics that specifically says it cannot be made of mithral, or perhaps to keep in line with fluff we call it Mithral Ore.

Would its movement penalty then revert to the next one up - being like normal heavy for 20'?

[averagejoe]

WHO exactly is this type of armor made for?

The class that was made for standing still-dwarven defender. As long as your adventure doesn't involve movement, a defender in mountain plate rocks.

[tiercel]

What about mithral mountain plate?

Is there any mechanics that specifically says it cannot be made of mithral...

The entry in Races of Stone specifically *allows* mithral mountain plate, but also specificies that the mithral version gets better Dex bonus/ACP/ASF but *not* armor type Medium or different movement speed than non-mithral mountain plate.

The class that was made for standing still-dwarven defender. As long as your adventure doesn't involve movement, a defender in mountain plate rocks.

Why would the dwarven defender use mountain plate when he can use interlocking plate? It's cheaper, much lighter, offers the same armor bonus when not moving more than 5', and when he *does* have to move, doesn't slow him (and allows him to take the Run action, if necessary).

[Doc Roc]

To put it very simply, any plan I've seen involving mountain plate was a terrible plan.
Mechanus Gear armor offers many similar benefits, but without (I think) some of the restrictive clauses.

My personal favorite armor is +1 mithril sectioned armor, from the planar handbook. No good reason.

[VirOath]

What about mithral mountain plate?

Is there any mechanics that specifically says it cannot be made of mithral, or perhaps to keep in line with fluff we call it Mithral Ore.

Would its movement penalty then revert to the next one up - being like normal heavy for 20'?

It can be made of mithril, it gets all the benefits except it doesn't remove the speed penalty or change it's armor type. You always take the penalties with the armor, no way of it not being Heavy Armor, needing a special feat even for Dwarves. Right in the Armor Description.

And it's a Dwarven Armor. Designed for the strongest, brought in the book that has a Dwarven PrC that applies Con to AC instead of Dex, ignoring max dex on armor. It is a literal walking tonnage of Death In A Can. Often an Armor of Dwarven Kings.

And Druids can't wear Mountain Plate. Druids are forbidden from wearing all metal armor. There is a full plate made from dragon scales to allow for druids to wear it, but there is no such replacement for Mountain Plate.

Mostly, if you aren't a High Str/Con with dump stat dex Dwarf, you aren't going to be making much use of Mountain Plate. It is 225lbs of metal. But doing it right can have a sky high AC with it.

[Doc Roc]

Mostly, if you aren't a High Str/Con with dump stat dex Dwarf, you aren't going to be making much use of Mountain Plate. It is 225lbs of metal. But doing it right can have a sky high AC with it.

What's your target for sky-high here?

[KillianHawkeye]

It's for classy NPC Dwarven Defenders who never ever leave the spot they're standing on. Not even to sleep, or pee. That's just how badass they are.

[Mr.Moron]

To put it very simply, any plan I've seen involving mountain plate was a terrible plan.
Mechanus Gear armor offers many similar benefits, but without (I think) some of the restrictive clauses.

Mechanus Gear is pretty okay.

Same 10 Armor/0 Dex.

However it is not exotic so it won't eat a feat and it can be made medium armor via mithral.. The main downside is availability. You'll only find it in big cities (and even then not there, if your DM wants to be a dink about it).

[Doc Roc]

No need for a feat + mithral->medium is a HUGE win over mountain plate. It does still slow you down, but moving it to mithral is.... a big deal. Also interesting, it actually benefits from the half-weight property, if you can shnooker your GM into allowing that, or if the game is high enough power.

[Heliomance]

And Druids can't wear Mountain Plate. Druids are forbidden from wearing all metal armor. There is a full plate made from dragon scales to allow for druids to wear it, but there is no such replacement for Mountain Plate.

It's made of stone, isn't it? Besides, there doesn't need to be an explicit dragonhide replacement; dragonhide is a special material just like mithril that has no effects other than allowing Druids to wear it. Any armour can be made from it.

[oxinabox]

Oath.
I knew this existed i didn't fully take into account it's speed penalty.

eh eh eh! Next one off game.
Dwarven defended. Con through the roof it.

You go ahead barbairans anmd roughs, when you find something to kill, drasw it back to me.
I'll Hit it with my Large fullblade.
2D10 +2d10 +12 should do it i think.
hmm haven't hit my stride yet.
can't do massive damage. what's wrong with me! ahh!

[Heliomance]

Trouble with Dwarven Defender is that you're very easy to ignore. Sure, no-one can hit you. No-one will even bother to try. They'll just go around you.

[AstralFire]

That one Stone Dragon PrC in ToB does it so much better. And the sad/useful thing is, like most of the ToB PrCs, it's not very hard to 'un' Bo9S it.

[woodenbandman]

Ah, mountain plate. I just skip it for Mechanus gear. I had a Feral Lesser Aasimar Swordsage with Halfweight Mechanus gear, and 6 dex. Had like 31 AC at level 9. That character was the weakest in a party of ridiculously broken characters that just absolutely tortured the rules of the game. We all took landlord, even all of our cohorts, and collectively we had an airship worth about 300k. The problem? We got an additional 25k, EACH, at every level. So what should we do with the rest of the money?

Good times.

[Choco]

Heh, I know it's better, but I don't got access to Mechanus Gear in the current campaign

On that note, while Mountain Plate may be completely useless to adventurers, it is PERFECT for Dwarven Defenders fighting in narrow underground tunnels. If your job is to stop the enemy from advancing through the 10-foot-wide hallway/tunnel/doorway you are tasked to guard, 2 Dwarven Defenders in Mountain Plate and probably equipped with tower shields are the perfect non-magical defense. Their job in that case aint to move, but to stay still and be a roadblock.