Why don't wizards run things?

[Lysander]

In your campaigns why don't wizards or other magicians run the world (assuming they don't)? One level 20 wizard should be able to control an entire nation with minimal effort. Here are my possible explanations:

A) There are no wizards powerful enough to take over the world
B) Magic works better in some places than others. High level spells can only work in magically strong places, and those areas are the only ones wizards control.
C) Wizards police themselves with a non-interference policy
D) If a wizard ever tries to take over the world a divine force attacks them for disturbing balance (or powerful clerics do it)
E) Any wizard powerful enough to take over the world is more likely to leave it for a more interesting plane
F) Wizards do run the world, but normal matters of state are far below them that they ignore most kingdoms and nobles, and take no part in law making
G) There are artifacts more powerful than wizards and the people with those are the ones who rule
H) Dragons or demons or some other kind of monster prefers humanity weak and kills off powerful wizards before they reach the height of power
I) Non-magical warriors or assassins are powerful enough to kill or oppose wizards
J) Magic items are plentiful, so having many powerful spells isn't much better than being rich and having many powerful items
K) Any wizard that powerful is likely a hermit more obsessed with magical research than rulership
L) Wizards do occasionally take over kingdoms, but those kingdoms usually fail because magic ≠ leadership and the wizard gives up after years of famine/riots/etc.

Any reasons of your own?

[quick_comment]

Wizards have low cha.

[Myatar_Panwar]

A level 20 anything in my games is pretty rare.

And if they do exist, yeah they are probably ruling the world.

edit: In fact, just imagining what it would take to reach that level of power is baffling. How long do your characters in games actually last? I think the longest I've gone without a death is something like 6 levels or so. Adventuring is dangerous business. If your not the hero of the story it is far, far worse.

[Talic]

Control and administration sap resources that the caster would otherwise use to research, learn, and generally be a better wizard.

Who wants to control other people, when doing so drains your resources, creates additional sources of enemies, and retards your advancement in the base of your power?

[jmbrown]

A level 20 anything in my games is pretty rare.

And if they do exist, yeah they are probably ruling the world.

This. Level 20s aren't (supposed to be) common. There are very few mundane monsters with CR over 15. Once you hit that point you're turning to the greater planes for challenges or fighting creatures in the deepest, darkest recesses of the earth that control things from behind the scenes.

[FMArthur]

High-level wizards are too busy crafting contingent spells and contingency plans for anything they might possibly be in danger from, and then thinking of new ways they might come to harm in order to prepare for those, too.

[Salt_Crow]

In my books, superintelligence + ultra-awesome power to bend the reality itself doesn't always equal love for politics. Unless it's all magically-controlled empire of mindless slaves, I'd imagine being one person would take its toll after a while. A coalition of wizards perhaps could do it I guess.

[penbed400]

In my current campaign that I'm working on Wizards are a small group, there is only one wizard that is probably about level 15 who learned from his master who died and everybody else is arouned level 5 wizards or lower.

Sorcerors rule most of the world due to their agreements and pacts with devils. (It's a LE centered nation)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If I ever get around to running one it will be because:
1: There are no level 17+ characters. Even the players don't reach that high(campaign ends at ~15). So casters don't get 9th level spells. 7th/8th are far less gamebreaking.
2: Certain abusable spells(also feats and magic items) don't exist. So casters/characters are somewhat more limited.
3: I am conceptually adapting Frank&K's economicon proposal in that high level characters don't bother with gold, since it is so easy for them to earn cash. Not sure what they'll use, but since GPs are infinite after a certain point, why use them as money? This prevents the Wizards from even inadvertantly breaking the economy.
4: ToB classes etc mean that casters don't get it all their own way.

That said, PC classes do rule the lands. Evil adventurers conquor kingdoms, good ones get married to royalty(the royalty does this so that they don't get killed). High-level characters rule the world, but they are supported by all of the minor aristocrats that ran the kingdom before the adventurer showed up and still have the real power.

[Lysander]

In my books, superintelligence + ultra-awesome power to bend the reality itself doesn't always equal love for politics. Unless it's all magically-controlled empire of mindless slaves, I'd imagine being one person would take its toll after a while. A coalition of wizards perhaps could do it I guess.

That falls under "they don't care", which I guess would be option K. I suppose a "hands off" magician ruler could just teleport into a throne room and do this:

*poof*
Wizard: I'm in charge now!
King: Yes! Please don't kill me! I'll obey you!
Wizard: Okay, good. Anyway, keep things running for me. I'll let you know if I want anything.
*poof* (Kingdom doesn't see wizard again for years)

I suppose being in charge of people isn't that lucrative when you already have supreme arcane power. I could see three reasons why a wizard would want to take command:

A) They're a megalomaniac villain
B) They want to become a benevolent ruler and help people (this could be a good person OR a misguided villain I suppose)
C) Controlling everything makes it easy to gather rare spell ingredients

[valadil]

Mostly because high level wizards are crazy. This is a recurring theme in fantasy worlds. And if they aren't crazy, they're paranoid.

Wizards have power beyond petty politics. Who cares about taxing peasants when you can stop time?

A really common BBEG in my games is the wizard who has decided to seize power.

[EleventhHour]

M) The local populace don't LIKE having an all-powerful wizard lording it over them.

[PId6]

Psst, by level 17, wizards have their own demi-planes. Who needs kingdoms?

[Deepblue706]

I generally don't have many high level NPCs in my game worlds. And, those that are high level and also Wizards don't necessarily run things because the ability to turn yourself into a dragon/blow up the moon doesn't make you a good ruler. In fact, pursuing nothing but wizardry would probably make you a poor ruler (although you might be able to 'convince' everyone else otherwise). Unless you have all the time in the world, to get to level 20 AND be a master of politics, it's just not going to work out. Furthermore, Wizards don't have much reason to have good WIS or CHA, which would be pretty important, if you ask me.

The same would go for all of the classes. Only those blessed with extraordinary charisma and some good social skills are going to be readily followed, and even then, followings might be fleeting if the leader doesn't know where he's going. Perhaps you might get a Paladin as King, but his old Wizard buddy would be the one who offers insights on how to solve most of the realm's problems.

Unless you've got great mental stats all-around (which will be exceptionally hard for anyone in a reasonable point-buy setting) or take levels in Aristocrat (which would make a Wizard significantly less powerful), I'd say your chances of being head of state are slim.

[Xenogears]

Because the bard/rogue with REALLY high Charisma convinced him to let them be his "advisor." Sure the wizard sits on the throne but hes not the real ruler...

[Shpadoinkle]

Because most of them too smart to get invovled in politics.

[PId6]

Furthermore, Wizards don't have much reason to have good WIS or CHA, which would be pretty important, if you ask me.

Contact Other Plane. Mass Suggestion. When you're a caster, those kind of mundane things don't really matter.

[Mr.Moron]

Mine:

There are materials and processes that can ward fixed areas against hostile magic fairly easily, as well as moderate the use of magic within them. The materials are in most regions, widely available and cheap enough that trying to take over/attack a settlement of any real size with magic would be pointless. They aren't really suitable for personal gear or use on adventure but they serve to protect the world's population from casters & dragons, and whatever else run amok.

[Deepblue706]

Contact Other Plane. Mass Suggestion. When you're a caster, those kind of mundane things don't really matter.

Contact Other Plane. Sure, a magic 8-ball is useful, but uh...I think you're overstating that spell's effectiveness.

Suggestion. Make someone take a course of action. Say, "Believe me, I'm great!" Works for uh, 1 person/level. No two of which more than 30ft apart.

Yeah, that's the be-all-end-all for ruling a Kingdom, right?

Actually, that feels like a rather underwhelming argument. Maybe you should try, uh, giving it context.

[Doc Roc]

My reason is three-fold:
Wizards are incredibly smart, virtually unkillable, almost wholly solitary, top-tier predators who are remarkably common.
Why bother with the Prime? Nothing good happens there if you are a wizard.
They do run things, things bigger than governments. Their schemes are so large as to be imperceptible.


Deepblue, heard of a spell called Mindrape?

[Mando Knight]

Mostly, though, it's because neither TSR nor WotC hired Tippy to write their official settings, and neither have most of us.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Suggestion. Make someone take a course of action. Say, "Believe me, I'm great!" Works for uh, 1 person/level. No two of which more than 30ft apart.

Yeah, that's the be-all-end-all for ruling a Kingdom, right?

Feudal system. The King and his Barons are the ones who make decisions. Peasants have no choice. Couple hundred people, at best, rule the land. They control their armed forces, you control them. The Knights and lower have no real power to influence who leads the government. Yes, they might mount a revolution, but it takes a lot of bad decisions on your part to make them do so.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Generally, high-level wizards in my settings make deals with the ruling parties of whatever land they're interested in to ensure that they don't need to deal with petty politics; basically, something like this:

"Hey, Mr. King. I'm chasing after Phenomenal Cosmic Power^TM and am willing to do whatever it takes to get there. So here's the deal: I don't care about your throne; I can make more comfortable chairs in my sleep, and I've got better things to do than mind-control your population. I do care about getting what I need and want, though, and this is a convenient piece of land, so I'm going to ward off your area as best I can against hostile magic (which is pretty freakin' well). In return, if I show up and need a few thousand gold worth of crushed rubies, or a bunch of prisoners to zombify, or a few adventurers to go get something for me, I'd better damn well get it immediately or possible sooner. You keep your power, I gain more power, you stay alive as long as you're useful. Now, let me know if you have heirs so I can explain this to them; meanwhile, I'll be playing chess with Cerberus for a few high-level scrolls while solving eleven-dimensional equations in my head. Ciao."

It explains national wards without requiring high-level wizards living there, it gives plot hooks for adventuring parties, it explains the proliferation of items adventurers need (since the wizard can pop in and want them at any time), and explains a bunch of other things.

[Deepblue706]

Deepblue, heard of a spell called Mindrape?

Heard of "If you think you're clever with magic, howabout suddenly get a letter from Wizards of the Epic-Level Invisible Ethical Agency that says Stop That"?

[Deepblue706]

Feudal system. The King and his Barons are the ones who make decisions. Peasants have no choice. Couple hundred people, at best, rule the land. They control their armed forces, you control them. The Knights and lower have no real power to influence who leads the government. Yes, they might mount a revolution, but it takes a lot of bad decisions on your part to make them do so.

I dunno, there can be a lot of lords to consider. Maybe if it's a tiny kingdom, you'll only have to deal with a handful of nobility. If you're talking significant, you have a lot of noble families to answer to, and they're not necessarily pushovers.

Suggestion is a sentence-or-two of convincing. Gather everyone together, and you can make them do reasonable-sounding things. There's a save for each person you target; there's a fair chance some will still argue with you anyway. And, with more uses of magic, you might eventually make it apparent that you're using magic. So, in time, things might get ugly, unless you spend some time actually learning politics.

[PId6]

Contact Other Plane. Sure, a magic 8-ball is useful, but uh...I think you're overstating that spell's effectiveness.

Suggestion. Make someone take a course of action. Say, "Believe me, I'm great!" Works for uh, 1 person/level. No two of which more than 30ft apart.

Yeah, that's the be-all-end-all for ruling a Kingdom, right?

Actually, that feels like a rather underwhelming argument. Maybe you should try, uh, giving it context.

Suggest the king and nobles obey you? Know which course of action is good? What possible reason would a high level wizard have for Wis and Cha that they can't replicate and better with spells? Sense Motive? Detect Thoughts. Diplomacy? Charm Person. Bluff? Mindrape. What can a mundane king give that a wizard can't do infinitely better?

[AstralFire]

Prepared casters who make it above 6th level spells are immediately and irrevocably stabbed in the face of their soul by a Fighter with lots of divine ranks.

And then cannot be resurrected.

[ondonaflash]

They did, but constant warring with other, better wizards, and necromancers caused a fairly dramatic societal collapse.

Then they tried to take control again, only to be confronted by a man with a brilliant, ruthless, and cunning tactical mind, and a sword (given to him by the goddess of magic) that allowed him to redirect any spells cast towards him.

He also mastered and trained his troops in a set of specific martial arts designed to disable the advantages of wizardry.

And have since been discriminated, and kept weak and incapable by any government with sense.


Wizards have never recovered.

[Jergmo]

Originally, wizards did rule the main continent in my campaign. There were entire floating cities ruled by wizards, and steampunk/awesome magic artifacts were common, and various wizards ruled over the puny folks that lived below. However, due to their own petty squabbles, they often warred with each other. This infighting, along with hostility from other sources (Outsiders, Dragons, etc.), their power base crumbled to dust and their cities crashed to the ground. Meanwhile, a good amount of the wizards that lived on the ground and were overseers went "Aw, nuts", as the very upset bronze age folks backed up by divine spellcasters beat them to a bloody pulp, and there was something similar to the Spanish Inquisition for arcane spellcasters. Over time, some of these spellcasters offered their services in return for their lives, and they found this niche to prosper. These mages now have their own magic prison, kind of like Azkaban, only actually competent at locking up mad wizards, and their own little city, but they're not in a concrete position to be taking over the world again.

Note: Sorry for the wall of text.

[imp_fireball]

In your campaigns why don't wizards or other magicians run the world (assuming they don't)? One level 20 wizard should be able to control an entire nation with minimal effort. Here are my possible explanations:

A) There are no wizards powerful enough to take over the world
B) Magic works better in some places than others. High level spells can only work in magically strong places, and those areas are the only ones wizards control.
C) Wizards police themselves with a non-interference policy
D) If a wizard ever tries to take over the world a divine force attacks them for disturbing balance (or powerful clerics do it)
E) Any wizard powerful enough to take over the world is more likely to leave it for a more interesting plane
F) Wizards do run the world, but normal matters of state are far below them that they ignore most kingdoms and nobles, and take no part in law making
G) There are artifacts more powerful than wizards and the people with those are the ones who rule
H) Dragons or demons or some other kind of monster prefers humanity weak and kills off powerful wizards before they reach the height of power
I) Non-magical warriors or assassins are powerful enough to kill or oppose wizards
J) Magic items are plentiful, so having many powerful spells isn't much better than being rich and having many powerful items
K) Any wizard that powerful is likely a hermit more obsessed with magical research than rulership
L) Wizards do occasionally take over kingdoms, but those kingdoms usually fail because magic ≠ leadership and the wizard gives up after years of famine/riots/etc.

Any reasons of your own?

On the basis that powerful people run things with power, nobles and aristocrats replace wizards because most settings assume relatively low magic with very modicum deity involvement (but any number of deities). Period. That's it.