Spelldrakes

[GreatWyrmGold]

I am starting a campaign.
I am a BIG fan of the "Crystal Cantrips" thread, a campaign journal that has been read by many of this forum's members. I wanted a memorable monster like in that campaign.
I also like dragons. (My avatar should have revealed that.) Thus, it only made sense to make a "spellcasting" dragon.
I will post the rest at a later point.
{table]Spell level|0|1|2|3
Size|Diminutive|Tiny|Tiny|Small
HD|1d12 (6 hp)|2d12 (13 hp)|3d12+3 (22 hp)|4d12+4 (30 hp)
Init|+2|+2|+2|+2
Speed|5 ft (1 square); fly 20 ft (average)|10 ft (2 squares); fly 40 ft (average))|10 ft (2 squares); fly 40 ft (average)|20 ft (4 squares); fly 80 ft (average)
AC|16 (+4 size, +2 Dex), touch 16, flat-footed 14|15 (+1 natural, +2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 13|16 (+2 natural, +2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 14|16 (+3 natural, +1 size, +2 Dex), touch 13, flat-footed 14
BaB/Grap|+1/-16|+2/-10|+3/-8|+4/-2
Attack|Bite +7 (1d2-5)|Bite +6 (1d3-4)|Bite +7 (1d3-3)|Bite +6 (1d4-2)
Full Attack|Bite +7 (1d2-5)|Bite +6 (1d3-4) and 2 claws +1 (1d2-4)|Bite +7 (1d3-3) and 2 claws +5 (1d2-3)|Bite +6 (1d4-2) and 2 claws +4 (1d3-2)
S/R|1/0|2.5/0|2.5/0|5/5
Special Attacks|Breath Spell|Breath Spell|Breath Spell|Breath Spell
Special Qualities|Darkvision 60 ft, Dragon Traits, Spell Resistance 5, Superior Low-light Vision|Darkvision 70 ft, Dragon Traits, Spell Resistance 6, Superior Low-light Vision|Darkvision 80 ft, Dragon Traits, Spell Resistance 8, Superior Low-light Vision|Darkvision 90 ft, Dragon Traits, Spell Resistance 11, Superior Low-light Vision
Saves|F +2, R +4, W +2|F +3, R +5, W +3|F +4, R +5, W +4|F +5, R +6, W +5
Abilities|Str 1, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 2|Str 3, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 4|Str 5, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 6, Wis 13, Cha 6|Str 7, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 8
Skills|Hide +18, Listen +2, Move Silently +6, Spot +2|Hide +15, Listen +5, Move Silently +7, Spot +5|Hide +16, Listen +7, Move silently +8, Spot +7|Hide +13, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Listen +8, Move silently +9, Spellcraft +5, Spot +8
Feats|Weapon Finesse|Weapon Finesse|Multiattack, Weapon Finesse|Multiattack, Weapon Finesse
Enironment|Any|Any|Any|Any
Organization|Solitary, Pair, or Clutch (3-6)|Solitary, Pair, or Clutch (3-6)|Solitary, Pair, or Clutch (3-6)|Solitary, Pair, or Clutch (3-6)
CR|1|3|5|?
Treasure|Standard; see text|Standard; see text|Standard; see text|Standard; see text
Alingment|Any|Any|Any|Any
LA|?|?|?|?[/table]

Breath spell (Su): A spelldrake may use any single spell, often as a breath effect, of a level equal to its spell level, once every 1d4 rounds.
Superior Low-light vision: A spelldrake can see a number of times farther than a human in poor light equal to 2+1/2 its spell level.
Treasure Note: If saved, the heads of these creatures can be used as single-use items which produce the spell effect the dragon could in life, which is usable by anyone.
Skills: A spelldrake gains a racial bonus to Spellcraft checks equal to its spell level, and to Knowledge (arcana) checks equal to half that. Note that these skills cannot be used untrained.





Phew! So, what do you think the CR (and LA, if possible) is on these?

[Debihuman]

Your categories seem a bit wonky to me and the format is off a bit. Why don't you use the standard monster format?

Debby

[GreatWyrmGold]

Your categories seem a bit wonky to me and the format is off a bit. Why don't you use the standard monster format?

Debby

Categories? Huh?
As to the format, will do!

[Eurus]

Why is the spell breath (Su) and not (Sp)? And also, what does it actually mean that it counts as a breath weapon? Metabreath feats can be applied, I assume, but does it change the area?

[Debihuman]

Why does SR have its own category? For that matter why does the chart start with spell level? SR should be listed with Special Abilities and monsters usually start with their name, then size/type.

You will probably find the introduction to reading monster entries helpful. You can read it here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm

Although the newer monster entries are better for DMs, the one in the SRD is probably the best for getting the most feedback.

Debby

[GreatWyrmGold]

Why is the spell breath (Su) and not (Sp)? And also, what does it actually mean that it counts as a breath weapon? Metabreath feats can be applied, I assume, but does it change the area?

It's SU because it's more of a breath weapon. Also, the bit about "counting as a breath weapon"? False. What I said was

often as a breath effect

, and that was just flavor text.

[Debihuman]

What is S/R? I thought it was spell resistance, but obviously it is something else since you give it two numbers.

Debby

[AstralFire]

Size/Reach. They're often omitted stats in homebrew.

[Eurus]

Ah, okay. Wasn't sure if it was flavor text or rules text. I'm no judge of CR whatsoever, so I don't have any advice there, sorry.

[GreatWyrmGold]

What is S/R? I thought it was spell resistance, but obviously it is something else since you give it two numbers.

Debby

Size/Reach. They're often omitted stats in homebrew.

AstralFire, you're correct. One might even say you're on fire!

[Debihuman]

Size/Reach. They're often omitted stats in homebrew.

D'oh! I should have figured that out.

Debby

[GreatWyrmGold]

Er, I kinda need to know the CRs of the critters...I want to start the campaign ASAP.

[RS14]

For that matter why does the chart start with spell level? SR should be listed with Special Abilities and monsters usually start with their name, then size/type.

OTOH, Dragons use a completely differently formatted chart based around "age category." Here, you might equally well refer to them as zeroth-spelldrake, first-spelldrake, second-spelldrake. The spell-level is considered the important characteristic.

As for CR: I would eyeball them at CR: 1, 3, and 5 respectively. This depends on how ruthlessly you play them, of course. The above judgments are made assuming you play them intelligently and attack only from range and with spells. If unable or unwilling to fly away, they are much, much weaker.

If you plan to give your players a reasonable chance of catching them in close quarters and e.g. grappling them, I would say 1/2, 2, 3 respectively.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Whoo! CR! A pattern, even.

LA would be nice, too.

[RS14]

Oh, don't take that pattern to be significant. You'd wind up with 9th level spells every 1d4 rounds for only a CR of 19. I also considered 1, 2, 4, which would give radically different CRs if followed.

I have no idea how to set LA. I've never bothered with it in my homebrew.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Oh, don't take that pattern to be significant. You'd wind up with 9th level spells every 1d4 rounds for only a CR of 19. I also considered 1, 2, 4, which would give radically different CRs if followed.

I have no idea how to set LA. I've never bothered with it in my homebrew.

Really? I was almost afraid that 9th-level spells would be lower than that!
For LA, if you have Savage Species (book or PDF), that can give you a decent estimate.

[DracoDei]

As a 18th level sorcerer could do 3 9th level spell in a row,. I hardly see CR 19 as necessarily being too low for a Spell-Drake Version 9 (or whatever we are calling it). The sorcerer has greater versitility, but lower HP and worse saves.

[GreatWyrmGold]

"Spelldrake Version 9" is a 9th-level spelldrake (long version: Spell level 9 Spelldrake).

I added spell resistance. How does that affect CR?

[Dracomortis]

"Spelldrake Version 9" is a 9th-level spelldrake (long version: Spell level 9 Spelldrake).

I added spell resistance. How does that affect CR?

It shouldn't affect it at all, really. A caster of the spelldrake's level has a mere 15% chance to fail to overcome spell resistance against a 0-level spelldrake, and only a 10% chance against the 1st-level and 2nd-level spelldrakes. That's before taking into consideration any bonuses to overcoming spell resistance that the caster might have from feats, class features, racial abilities, etc.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It shouldn't affect it at all, really. A caster of the spelldrake's level has a mere 15% chance to fail to overcome spell resistance against a 0-level spelldrake, and only a 10% chance against the 1st-level and 2nd-level spelldrakes. That's before taking into consideration any bonuses to overcoming spell resistance that the caster might have from feats, class features, racial abilities, etc.

Okay, good. Adding more spelldrakes!

[Glimbur]

When you say "any spell", do you mean any Archivist, Beguiler, Cleric, Domain, Dread Necromancer, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Shujenja, Sorcerer, Warmage, Wizard, Wu Jen, or other classes I have forgotten? Because if you do you have a moral obligation to never let a player be one of these things, ever, simply due to the paperwork.

Edit: Oh, it's a single spell you pick ahead of time. That's not nearly so powerful.