Least Favourite RPGs

[Zolkabro]

What are peoples least favourite RPGs? Here you can post about them, discuss them, and do whatever you want with them.

My least favourite RPG is the Artix Entertainment series. They are, starting with the worst, and ending with the best, (which is still pretty bad), Adventure Quest, Dragon Fable, and Mech Quest.

[Swordguy]

d20. Not because it's an especially bad system, but because it's a) so overexposed, b) people think it's the be-all and end-all of gaming (partially a function of "a"), and c) thinks it's a universal system, which it's not. It's made to portray D&D, and does a passable job at that. Everything else feels forced; the only non-bad, non-D&D d20 games I've ever played are Lone Wolf (Mongoose Publishing) and Stargate SG-1/Spycraft (AEG). Both of which really only use the core mechanic, and change so much else that they're really completely new games rather than d20 ports.

GURPS. The only thing it's good for is crazy, multi-verse mashups. Which is awesome if that's what you're looking for. But a dedicated system designed to portray a specific game genre is almost certainly be superior to a game system designed to portray ALL game genres in the specific game genre being discussed. It's a good third or fourth choice for any given genre, but never the first choice. With the obvious exception of the mashups.

RIFTS. Simply because the system doesn't work. Flat-out (you hit on a natural 5+ on a d20 and have a +10 to strike? Come on.). The setting is made of awesome and win, and its level of such inversely proportional to the mechanics.

L5R 3e. The game is maddening, in that the fluff and setting are completely awesome, and the mechanics do a good job of making it easy to portray the setting...but the company is far, FAR worse than WoTC in their inability to see the effects of stuff they release. They just have no concept of the "gamist" part of the GNS theory...which would be fine if the mechanics were simple, but they're actually extremely complex and non-intuitive, and the lack of effort from the company to make the mechanics smooth is just...frustrating.

FATAL. Because I've played it. 'Nuff said.

[Winterwind]

I'll go with d20, too, for pretty much the reason that so many people seem to think it's the only RPG in the world and are utterly blind for so many other, for many purposes better ones.

[kamuishirou]

Paranoia - Maybe it was the DM, but then again we did have some pretty memorable other games. But wow did I hate that game the moment we started. You're in character at all times? You die countless times and you have petty little things to take out other people in your 'party'?

I'd rather play Frag.

edit:

FATAL. Because I've played it. 'Nuff said.

I have the rules, and want to read them just because I heard how bad it is. Though I just haven't had the chance. I heard it was pretty awful.

[AstralFire]

d20. Not because it's an especially bad system, but because it's a) so overexposed, b) people think it's the be-all and end-all of gaming (partially a function of "a"), and c) thinks it's a universal system, which it's not. It's made to portray D&D, and does a passable job at that. Everything else feels forced; the only non-bad, non-D&D d20 games I've ever played are Lone Wolf (Mongoose Publishing) and Stargate SG-1/Spycraft (AEG). Both of which really only use the core mechanic, and change so much else that they're really completely new games rather than d20 ports.

I've heard good things about Mutants and Masterminds and I feel Star Wars Saga did a really good job. I can't stand the majority of d20 spinoffs, however (including some of the ones I've worked on). Even if I haven't had as much exposure to other game systems as I'd like, it doesn't take much to see where d20 in any of its variations has issues. Until we get to the point where you can throw dice roll chains into a computer and have everything effortlessly precomputed for us, there's no way to really have a truly universal system that can use the same mechanics for everything.

Also, what the hell compelled you to play FATAL.

[Indon]

d20. Not because it's an especially bad system, but because it's a) so overexposed, b) people think it's the be-all and end-all of gaming (partially a function of "a"), and c) thinks it's a universal system, which it's not. It's made to portray D&D, and does a passable job at that. Everything else feels forced; the only non-bad, non-D&D d20 games I've ever played are Lone Wolf (Mongoose Publishing) and Stargate SG-1/Spycraft (AEG). Both of which really only use the core mechanic, and change so much else that they're really completely new games rather than d20 ports.

Mutants and Masterminds is D20 based, and I think it works quite well.

Also, the D20 system is named after the core mechanic - that's what defines it.

Hmm, least favorite RPG... the LARP ruleset for World of Darkness. Not just because I'm not a LARPer, but because I think rock-paper-scissors is a pretty silly way to resolve actions.

[subject42]

Rifts was a bit of a mess last time I played it.

• The rules frequently flat-out contradicted themselves
• The resolution system for different things (attacks, skills, etc) felt like they each came from a different system.
• A d30, really?
• It was extremely easy to create broken characters, even by accident.

That's all I remember for now.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

FATAL. Nothing can justify FATAL.

[JMobius]

D&D. I know its "cool" to hate on it because its popular, but it is really just lies at the polar opposite of everything I enjoy about the hobby.

[Morty]

I think we're going to have to exclude FATAL from this thread, otherwise everyone's just going to say FATAL and, true as it might be, it'd be boring.
I don't have much to contribute myself, having played only D&D and WFRP, both of which I like. The worst-designed system I've ever seen is my homebrewed one, and Exalted sounds like something I'd never play.

[alexi]

rifts god i had such fond memories of playing in the eraly 90's, tried playing again ugh that system needs a reboot way more then dnd

[Saph]

Paranoia was probably the least fun system I've played.

It's sad, because I love the concept, and when Paranoia threads crop on this board I think they're funny as hell, but the actual game just led to everyone sitting around in silence (because saying ANYTHING got you more treason points, so the players eventually stopped talking). The fact that the mission resembled a D&D dungeoncrawl through a train tunnel didn't help.

[kkortekaas]

Dragonstar, it's a offshoot of d20 mechanics that tried to replicate Spelljammer and failed in my opinion.

[jmbrown]

I have the rules, and want to read them just because I heard how bad it is. Though I just haven't had the chance. I heard it was pretty awful.

It's 900 pages of charts designed to accurately measure a man's junk and the damage you do to a woman (and man) when you force things inside them.

I don't have to explain how terrible it is both in mechanics and concept any further.

[mikeejimbo]

Paranoia - Maybe it was the DM, but then again we did have some pretty memorable other games. But wow did I hate that game the moment we started. You're in character at all times? You die countless times and you have petty little things to take out other people in your 'party'?

I'd rather play Frag.

That's odd, I loved the only game of Paranoia I played. It was awesome. Of course, you have to accept the fact that you're supposed to die a multitude of times in a variety of hilarious (and/or treasonous!) manners. It's definitely a game to be taken lightly.

[Swordguy]

Also, what the hell compelled you to play FATAL.

I'll keep the threadjack fast:

We played it because I have a group of incredibly mature people, with ZERO "squick" factor (we're all actors/actresses), who were all bored, had read the FATAL review, and thought, "this sounds like a snow job rather than a real review", and so we picked up the PDFs. It was there - it's the same reason people climb Everest. And this way, as a bonus, we have an educated opinion about it (which is, "it sucked"), rather than just parroting the popular opinion of the internet.

EDIT:

It's 900 pages of charts designed to accurately measure a man's junk and the damage you do to a woman (and man) when you force things inside them.

Like this. It's not. The pointless sex crap (what people call a "rape simulator", which is is) takes about 36 pages of a 900 page document. It doesn't make those 36 pages any better, true, but stuff like this is simply factually incorrect.

</threadjack>

[AstralFire]

Even without looking at the review and just glancing at the mechanics there, FATAL scares me with the number of die rolled. But you're a more open-minded person than I am in that regard, I suppose.

[WhiteHarness]

Exalted.

L5R.

Anything in the World of Darkness.

[mikeejimbo]

I don't think FATAL was ever supposed to be a serious system though. When I read the rules, it sounded a lot like a parody. Especially the line about how even though it has some objectionable things in it, these things happen in real life and so RPGs try to simulate them. But the way it was written sounded a lot more cynical, to me.

[Tyrrell]

There are some truly horrible games that I've played (Blood Dawn springs to mind) but I never expected much out of them so they didn't really earn my dislike. the ones that have earned honest distaste are the games that IMO should have been much better

I'm not fond of the paladium games I've been exposed to (ninjas and super spies, beyond the supernatural , and Rifts) because I think that the system is poorly cobbled together and poorly edited, making painfully frustrating to achieve the suspension of disbelief crushing results that it generates. At least that's my experience.

Mage the Ascension:I was hyped about this game and it had lots of good ideas behind it. I really liked how using coincidence made magic feel. However character abilities and the setting were not sufficiently well defined and I always ended up with misunderstandings among the players and storyguides about what was possible, what was coincidence versus vulgar and what the nature of the setting was. This wasn't just a failure of description it was a failure of mechanics that didn't do what they were supposed to and were dull to boot. Once again this was just my experience.

[PLUN]

I don't think FATAL was ever supposed to be a serious system though. When I read the rules, it sounded a lot like a parody. Especially the line about how even though it has some objectionable things in it, these things happen in real life and so RPGs try to simulate them. But the way it was written sounded a lot more cynical, to me.

The rebuttal sounds fairly serious business though. Also, competing with Violence for parody RPG is always going to be hard.

So, worst system? Shadowrun. No so hot on the rules, like the so cheesy it's good, unironic eighties setting of Cyberpunk more.

[Nerd-o-rama]

d20. Not because it's an especially bad system, but because it's a) so overexposed, b) people think it's the be-all and end-all of gaming (partially a function of "a"), and c) thinks it's a universal system, which it's not. It's made to portray D&D, and does a passable job at that. Everything else feels forced; the only non-bad, non-D&D d20 games I've ever played are Lone Wolf (Mongoose Publishing) and Stargate SG-1/Spycraft (AEG). Both of which really only use the core mechanic, and change so much else that they're really completely new games rather than d20 ports.

While I agree with all your points, I must point out that Mutants & Masterminds is technically a d20 system, and is one of the not only best but most universal systems (for cinematic action, at least) I've ever played.

As for me...I don't really dislike any systems, but GURPS is a major pain to get started in. BESM Tri-Stat, I feel, is done better with M&M (unless you really want HP and MP). And Mage the Awakening is extremely blah fluffwise compared to Mage the Ascension.

[Swordguy]

While I agree with all your points, I must point out that Mutants & Masterminds is technically a d20 system, and is one of the not only best but most universal systems (for cinematic action, at least) I've ever played.

Fair enough. I disagree, but it's just my opinion.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Ah, so you have played it. I was hoping from your phrasing that you were just unfamiliar with it. Oh well, different strokes.

[Partysan]

Hmm, least favorite RPG... the LARP ruleset for World of Darkness. Not just because I'm not a LARPer, but because I think rock-paper-scissors is a pretty silly way to resolve actions.

Oh believe me, I am a LARPer and that is exactly the reason why I hate those rules. They don't have anything to do with LARP in my book.

[Zuki]

Hm. I'll have to go with 'least favorite out of what I've actually played'. Lemme think here.

I like the gonzo setting and fantasy+cyberpunk Blender that is Shadowrun, but I'm not all that keen on the system. I tend to find point buy character creation a bit too lengthy and tedious--too many choices and I waffle forever without knowing what I want. I don't have feelings about the mechanics one way or the other, but I don't like the way the system feels like it should be this silly dorky guns-are-fun thing, and then you're simultaneously over-planning and calculating and paranoid about everything like its gygaxian dungeon time all over again. I suspect with the right group, it would be more fun.

I don't like that Warcraft/World of Warcraft d20 stuff White Wolf licensed, either. They're handy for people looking to gobble up every last piece of dubiously canonical lore about the setting (I am occasionally guilty of this), but the class design just kinda fell flat. If I was going to tabletop Azeroth, I'd probably use regular 3.5 or 4e with a re-skin and a few tweaks. It still doesn't feel like quite the right system for the setting, though.

I don't like Vampire: The Masquerade or Vampire: The Requiem. I don't have anything against White Wolf's World of Darkness game lines, old or new, but...I don't like vampires. They're not worth the effort to hate, but they're fundamentally not interesting to me as a roleplay concept. (...Now, werewolves, on the other hand...)

I tried Risus once or twice. I wanted to like it. It was silly and you could build all kinds of silly concepts! But I think I misunderstood the rules or was using them poorly, because I couldn't really get what I wanted done. The way using a skill and failing makes it less useful, well...guh.

I can't think of any other games I've played that I had a sufficiently negative experience with to be worth listing.

[Tengu_temp]

Cyberpunk 2020 - because its mechanics are extremely bad at representing what they are supposed to do, because character creation is awful, and because there's a lot of stuff there that simply makes no sense (a cybernetic hand costs more and causes more humanity loss than a cybernetic arm). I don't like DND 3.x, but it's still a much better game than this thing.

[lesser_minion]

Exalted kind of scared me really. It sounded like an interesting idea, but I don't think I'll ever play it.

I guess I could just be illiterate, but it seemed pretty difficult to understand - certainly more so than just about any other RPG I've read.

[Eldariel]

Paranoia was probably the least fun system I've played.

It's sad, because I love the concept, and when Paranoia threads crop on this board I think they're funny as hell, but the actual game just led to everyone sitting around in silence (because saying ANYTHING got you more treason points, so the players eventually stopped talking). The fact that the mission resembled a D&D dungeoncrawl through a train tunnel didn't help.

Seems like a weird mindset. For us it worked out great as the players didn't fear to die and took it for the insane parodia it is just letting loose with little attachment to...anything.

Serious attempts at staying alive really just don't work which is a great excuse to not really worry about dying and rather worry about your secret goal and getting your teammates killed (oh, and the mission too).


To answer the thread though, uh, FATAL?

[jmbrown]

Like this. It's not. The pointless sex crap (what people call a "rape simulator", which is is) takes about 36 pages of a 900 page document. It doesn't make those 36 pages any better, true, but stuff like this is simply factually incorrect.

I have the pdf. Bought it when the game was originally released. People exagerrate for humorous effect but it doesn't change that the nature of the game is terrible in every way.

And seconds on Rifts. Interesting setting and idea but if I ever want to use "terrible execution" as an example for new writers I'll point them to it.