I've got a request for the many people here better at Op than me.

[AstralFire]

Arcane Strike. What is the most powerful build you can make it a centerpiece of? Normal or Gestalt, any level, books are Core, Complete, Tome of Battle, PHB II, Book of Exalted Deeds and Mini HB. Nothing else because I don't want to watch a discussion start on some awesome ability in a book I don't own. :(

Bonus points if it somehow involves Dervish.

These points can be redeemed for an on-demand terrible pun.

[quick_comment]

Arcane Swordsage + Arcane Strike = win!

Maybe fit jade phoenix mage in there so you can arcane strike while you arcane strike.

[AstralFire]

Arcane Swordsage + Arcane Strike = win!

Maybe fit jade phoenix mage in there so you can arcane strike while you arcane strike.

Arcane Swordsage doesn't count. That's not a class, that's an idea of a class!

[quick_comment]

Pah.

Im out of ideas then. Gishes arent my thing.

How about wizard + shapechange + arcane strike? Or is that cheating?

[Mongoose87]

The Jade Phoenix Mage's Arcane Wrath is even better.

[Mr.Moron]

Well, since we're talking about Gestalt here, Duskblade/Focused-Specialist Wizard jumps out at me first. It generates a ton of spell slots, full BaB and non-horrible health. They share a casting stat and you have the raw power of full wizard casting to back up everything else.

[quick_comment]

The Jade Phoenix Mage's Arcane Wrath is even better.

It stacks with arcane strike.

[Eldariel]

Arcane Wrath is much worse: It only works on a single attack, it requires an action to use and its To Hit-bonus is static.

That said, what you want out of Arcane Strike is high-level slots and lots of attacks. So uhh, Sublime Chord Jade Phoenix Mage, I guess. Let's try to get the levels to land right:

Bard 1/Wizard 4/Warblade 3/Jade Phoenix Mage 2/Sublime Chord 1/Jade Phoenix Mage +8...man, it needs 1 level more in both, casting and initiating to work out. The only solution would be to get Bardic Music from race/feat/whatever, which I do think is doable though I don't remember how right now and 339 is down. That would give us:

Wizard 4/Warblade 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 2/Sublime Chord 2/Jade Phoenix Mage +9 for 9th level spells and maneuvers. Now then, on your Warblade-levels, you pick up enough Diamond Mind- and Tiger Claw-maneuvers to qualify for Rabid Mongoose and Time Stands Still. Purely to optimize Arcane Strike, we want to maximize our number of attacks so we TWF. This gives us 7 attacks by default, one from Haste, two from Rabid Mongoose and double for 20 from Time Stands Still.

Total of +9 and +9d4 to attacks and damage for all of them. Feels pretty good. Hell, take two levels of Bloodclaw Master instead of two Warblade-levels for full Str to the offhand weapons, take IUS + SUS and we've got great Unarmed Strikes and we can PA with both, our USs and two-hander!

[AstralFire]

Nicely done. Thank you. You may summon me via PM to deliver one relevant, terrible pun at a time of your choosing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Arcane Swordsage doesn't get spell slots, which is what's required to power Arcane Strike.

Just about an arcane Gish build will work with Arcane Strike, it's actually one of the must-have feats in any such build. Examples include Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, or for raw power go Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight 4. A Duskblade could also use Arcane Strike, as could just about any build that uses Suel Arcanamach. I think a more standard Gish like the examples I gave would probably be the most powerful choices.

[valadil]

This is probably not the most optimal build, but it amuses me.

Sorc3 /monk 2/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant Champion 5
with Arcane Strike and Ascetic Mage

Arcane Strike lets you burn a spell to get +X to hit +Xd4 damage
Ascetic Mage lets you burn a spell to get +X to hit +X damage (and adds a ton of ac)
Abby Champ lets you burn a spell to get +X to hit or +2*X damage
Enlightened fist lets you cast and deliver a touch (or eventually ray) ray spell during your full attack.
where X is the level of the spell.

You could burn through a lot of slots incredibly quickly and probably hit on most of the attacks without even having a decent strength score. It might even be worthwhile to throw power attack into the mix.

I'm not sure what the proper order would be for leveling. Human paragon might help. Feel free to elaborate on this build outline - I'm curious to see what someone else can do with it.

[tonberrian]

Arcane Strike specifies that you can only use it on one weapon or you're unarmed strike, so you can't use it for TWF unless you sacrifice two spells - which is even worse, especially since you can get more attacks without those feats.

Ex-Bard 1/Cobra Stike variant Monk 19//Gloura 9/Bard 1/Sublime Chord 1/Swiftblade 9

You qualify for all sorts of Cha based goodies (Ascetic Mage, Snowflake Wardance), plus Cha to Saves and AC thanks to race. Focus on Unarmed Strike, using Versatile Unarmed Strike to make it Slashing and qualify for Snowflake Wardance with Flurry of Blows, Snap Kick, Roundhouse Kick to get extra attacks. Swiftblade is just for fun. Looks like possibly 7 attacks with undispellable Haste (with an extra standard action for anything you want, 50% concealment, and immunity to targetted spells half the time) with another one for every crit.

[AstralFire]

Arcane Strike specifies that you can only use it on one weapon or you're unarmed strike, so you can't use it for TWF unless you sacrifice two spells - which is even worse, especially since you can get more attacks without those feats.

You can read it either way: the text says both:

• You can channel arcane energy into a melee weapon, your unarmed strike, or natural weapons
• You gain a bonus on all your attack rolls for 1 round

I generally see it ruled in favor of the second text since TWF gets the hose usually anyway, and I shall stick with that for purposes of this thread.

[valadil]

Arcane Strike specifies that you can only use it on one weapon or you're unarmed strike, so you can't use it for TWF unless you sacrifice two spells - which is even worse, especially since you can get more attacks without those feats.

It also specifies natural weapons, so you could polymorph first. How does Flurry or TWF interact with polymorphing into something else?

[Myrmex]

Arcane Swordsage doesn't get spell slots, which is what's required to power Arcane Strike.

Just about an arcane Gish build will work with Arcane Strike, it's actually one of the must-have feats in any such build. Examples include Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, or for raw power go Fighter 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Eldritch Knight 4. A Duskblade could also use Arcane Strike, as could just about any build that uses Suel Arcanamach. I think a more standard Gish like the examples I gave would probably be the most powerful choices.

Questions: Is Full BAB2/wiz 4 worth it, or is Full BAB 1/wiz6 better, in the long run?

[edit]
For a gish.

[tonberrian]

It also specifies natural weapons, so you could polymorph first. How does Flurry or TWF interact with polymorphing into something else?

That's an idea.

Totemist//Arcane Spellcasting Thingy

Polymorph into, say, a kraken, and use the Totemist soulmelds for a bunch more natural attacks other than tentacles. Use Arcane Strike to power all of them simultaneously.

Bonus points if you can fit Warshaper and Raging Mongoose in there too.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A decent Monk Gish build goes something like Monk 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10 with Ascetic Mage. That gets 16th level Monk abilities before you count a Monk's Belt/Tattoo, and 18th level Sorcerer spellcasting, though with only a +12 BAB. It's probably the most playable build that has Monk abilities as a primary focus outside of using Sacred Fist.

[Myrmex]

A decent Monk Gish build goes something like Monk 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10 with Ascetic Mage. That gets 16th level Monk abilities before you count a Monk's Belt/Tattoo, and 18th level Sorcerer spellcasting, though with only a +12 BAB. It's probably the most playable build that has Monk abilities as a primary focus outside of using Sacred Fist.

+12 BAB, while a bummer for PA, can be made up for with Wraithstrike. On a monk gish, I don't see that as highly overpowered.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Questions: Is Full BAB2/wiz 4 worth it, or is Full BAB 1/wiz6 better, in the long run?

[edit]
For a gish.

Full BAB 2/ Wizard 4/ Spellsword 1/ Incantatrix 4/ Full BAB gets you a +16 BAB with Metamagic Effect: Persistent Spell. If you're not going to include Incantatrix, you may want to go something like Fighter 1/ Wizard 6/ Spellsword 5/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3, which gets 9th level spells and +16 BAB along with Channel Spell from Spellsword. It really just depends on how much of what classes you want, plus the 5th Wizard level is good to have for Spontaneous Divination. Note you can replace Fighter 2/ Wizard 4 with Fighter 1/ Wizard 2/ Human/Elf Paragon 3 and be better off.

[Keld Denar]

I like the Totemist idea...you could do something like

Totemist20//Pally2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbjChamp5/SacEx8

Then you could use Arcane Strike and Divine Might in the same round to add a metric bloop-ton of bonus damage on all of your natural attacks. Maybe splash a bit of Warblade in on the Totemist side spaced out to pick up Dancing Mongoose and Pouncing Charge as well (althouth you can get Pounce from binding Sphinx Claws, IIRC). Take Illithid Heritage and Illithid Grapple x4 to get some face suckers on there on top of your Totemist binds, and while you are at it, get a Blade Braid for yet another free attack. Damage is irrelevant since you'll get so much bonus damage from your other features.

[AstralFire]

Please nothing with totemist or Dragon. I neither have the book, nor do I know the mechanics. -points to initial post-

[Keld Denar]

Dragon? You mean like Dragon Mags? I didn't use any of that. Illithid Heritage and Illithid Grapple are in Complete Psionic, IIRC, but I know they aren't from a Dragon Mag.

What about Web Enhancements on the WotC site? You could do some mean things with the Web Enhancement Kobald (the one with the Claw Claw Bite attacks) Sorcerer6/Swiftblade10/AbjChamp4 or something like that, especially if you could use the Rite of Draconic Passage from yet another Web Enhancement. Swiftblade is in yet another Web Enhancement. Take Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike from the Draconomicon (which you don't have...crappy) and maybe Dragon Tail.

In the end you'd have a scrappy little bugger with a nasty Claw Claw Claw Claw Claw Claw Bite Tail routine augemented by Arcane Strikes, and thats before you factor in all of the Swiftblade Hastey goodness.

[AstralFire]

Master of the East Wind is from Dragon, so I was making a general response. Web enhancements are cool, I can pick those up. :D

[Keld Denar]

Here is the Web Enhancement for Kobalds. Here is the one for Swiftblades.

Level progression would be:

Kobald Sorc6/Swiftblade10/AbjChamp4
1st Dodge
3rd Mobility
6th Arcane Strike
9th Rapid Strike (allows 2nd attack with each claw)
12th Combat Casting
15th Improved Rapid Strike (allows 3rd and more claw attacks per BAB)
18th Elusive Target

Cast as a 17th level caster which gives you 8th level spells to burn for Arcane Strike. You won't do AMAZING hand-to-hand damage, but you'll have something to work with. Protect yourself with Greater Mirror Image, Wings of Cover, and Swiftblade's innate miss chance and you'll be relatively robust as an evasion tank while you arcane claw claw claw claw claw claw bite people to death!

[Doc Roc]

How much power do you want? :)

I suggest you cross post this on 339. The JPM Sub Chord build was beautiful, by the way. :)

[AstralFire]

Eh. I've never gotten helpful advice from that board on anything - maybe it's just how I ask - and it's been years since I was a regular browser, so I don't know anyone. I just wanted to see what it could do, since it's probably my favorite crunch feat in the entire game.

[Doc Roc]

I think you'll find it's a pretty different environment over there now...

[Eldariel]

Gawd damnit, I can't find any way to gain Bardic Music without Bard-levels. That only leaves me with one option: Versatile Spellcaster qualification. I hate to use such, but I have to admit, it works pretty well with Sublime Chord... So Bard 4/Warblade 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 2/Sublime Chord 2/Jade Phoenix Mage +8...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Prestige Bard?

[quick_comment]

Gawd damnit, I can't find any way to gain Bardic Music without Bard-levels. That only leaves me with one option: Versatile Spellcaster qualification. I hate to use such, but I have to admit, it works pretty well with Sublime Chord... So Bard 4/Warblade 4/Jade Phoenix Mage 2/Sublime Chord 2/Jade Phoenix Mage +8...

You could just go gestalt.

And instead of bard 4/warblade 4, you can do bard 1/warblade 7 and take song of the white raven.