Running incarnum as a dm

[SilveryCord]

So recently I played a totemist, and after asking advice from the forum found it very fun. For the next campaign I dm I was thinking of doing all incarnum.
The moi book has a lot of feats for classes not based on incarnum, but I want to hear what you all have experienced with it.
Are the monsters at the right cr? What needs to be in a full on incarnum campaign?

[Darwin]

I can't say anything from experience, I've been working a lot with incarnum characters recently after having discovered the book. But I haven't DM'ed anything with it yet.

I'd say that if you want a full-scale Incarnum campaign, Necrocarnates are obvious and flavorful villains. It should be possible to pull off an incarnum undead apocalypse.

Rather than enforcing your character into incarnum classes and roles, I'd give out incarnum bonus feats over the course of the campaign as special rewards for dealing with incarnum related things.

[quick_comment]

You could actually forbid anyone from being an incarnum class, then after the villains break the macguffin portal to the afterlife (while trying to harness its power), then incarnum is released into the world. After they defeat some appropriate challenge, gestalt them with totemist or incarnate.

[Indon]

Remember that Incarnum is essentially an alternate divine magic system: Incarnates correlate loosely to Clerics, Soulborn correlate loosely to Paladins, and Totemists correlate loosely to Druids.

Edit: In that sense, in fact, it's a lot like Tome of Battle and Tome of Magic, but for divine spellcasters.

This is not to say that all Incarnates are Cleric-like, or that Totemists have a secret language or anything, but that they can fulfill similar social roles - with the exception that Incarnates and Soulborn serve an alignment first and a deity (if any) second, while traditional divine casters tend to do it the other way around.

As such, you might also end up with alignment playing a larger part in your games than normal (Incarnates, at least, get Detect Opposition at will) - so be prepared for that.

For the Incarnum take on alignments, check out the alignment-dependent Incarnate class features, as well as Incarnate Avatar. From what I recall, Incarnum tends to depict Good as being selflessly helpful (providing AC bonuses), and Evil as bringing the pain (providing damage bonuses). I forget what Law and Chaos did.

[Sinfire Titan]

Remember that Incarnum is essentially an alternate divine magic system: Incarnates correlate loosely to Clerics, Soulborn correlate loosely to Paladins, and Totemists correlate loosely to Druids.

Actually, it's closer to magic items in general. In fact, the Incarnum classes can be used to partially replace the WBL, provided you know what you are doing.

Totemists are closer to Swordsages/Monks than Druids, and the Incarnate is closer to a Factotum than a Cleric.


A partial Gestalt (where you force them to take either Incarnate or Totemist on one side and forbid them from multiclassing on that side) actually replaces about 60% of the WBL (stat boosters and utility items are usually what's left).

I don't recommend the Incarnum monsters, rather I suggest you use MM4 and MM5. Those two books tend to provide more of a challenge to classes from the Bo9S, MoI, and ToM than the base MM. Also, customize things a bit. Make a few generic monsters into Martial Adepts or Meldshapers, and a few of the spellcasting ones Binders or Dragonfire Adepts.

[Indon]

Actually, it's closer to magic items in general. In fact, the Incarnum classes can be used to partially replace the WBL, provided you know what you are doing.

Totemists are closer to Swordsages/Monks than Druids, and the Incarnate is closer to a Factotum than a Cleric.

I mean in terms of flavor. Mechanically, like their ToB and ToM relatives, they aren't necessarily anything like the classes they're intended to mirror (for example, the Swordsage is little like the Monk mechanically).

[Sinfire Titan]

I mean in terms of flavor. Mechanically, like their ToB and ToM relatives, they aren't necessarily anything like the classes they're intended to mirror (for example, the Swordsage is little like the Monk mechanically).

Flavor-wise, I'd put the Totemist closer to a Shifter (the race), not a Druid. But that's just me.

[Blackfang108]

Flavor-wise, I'd put the Totemist closer to a Shifter (the race), not a Druid. But that's just me.

Flavor-wise, I'd put the totemist between Steak and Venison.

...

What?

[Sinfire Titan]

Flavor-wise, I'd put the totemist between Steak and Venison.

...

What?

The reverse also applies...

[Indon]

The reverse also applies...

In Soviet D&D, Totemist eat you?

Edit: Oh, and if you DM Incarnum, be prepared to be willing to make more soulbinds. Honestly, the book doesn't have all too many, and there's little support for it elsewhere.

[Blackfang108]

In Soviet D&D, Totemist eat you?

Edit: Oh, and if you DM Incarnum, be prepared to be willing to make more soulbinds. Honestly, the book doesn't have all too many, and there's little support for it elsewhere.

Dragon Magic, and a few Dragon Magazines, IIRC.

And the Dragon Magic ones suck because you MUST be part dragon, (dragonblood subtype, half-dragon, dragon heritage etc). Granted, that's easily fluffed away, and you'll probably want to. Let's be honest, the only reason the designers did that was because of the book it was in.

[Sinfire Titan]

In Soviet D&D, Totemist eat you?

Edit: Oh, and if you DM Incarnum, be prepared to be willing to make more soulbinds. Honestly, the book doesn't have all too many, and there's little support for it elsewhere.

Or just wait a while, as I'm working on 2 entire classes for meldshaping, both of which will have new soulmelds to work with.

[Fixer]

I love incarnum feats, essentially granting a class feature for the cost of a feat.

If it is a PbP campaign, please let me know. I have two incarnum-laden character builds (that are not incarnum classes) that I want to try out.

[Sinfire Titan]

Bit of cheese: Stone Power can be used with Cobalt Power. You get 10 Hp and a +5 to damage. Oh, and Bull Rushes, Overruns, Trips, and Grapple checks. Great for a Crusader or someone with Knowledge Devotion (or a Crusader with Knowledge Devotion).

[Glimbur]

One problem you might find is that out of combat healing is really limited. Sure, Incarnates can use the Lifebond Vestments, but you can only affect a person with them 1/hour. Maybe the heart bind removes this restriction, but that is quite high level. I decided to kick game balance to the curb and had the PC's get a "Healing Spirit", wherein after every combat if they ask for healing I roll some dice and they heal that much.

The Soulborn to me seems to have too little Incarnum to it, and too few class features in general.

Mostly, though, I'm here to pimp the soulmelds I hombrewed: more uses for the Incarnate Avatar and the Totemist ones are in my signature.