Caster that can be the Party Tank

[oxinabox]

Nominations for casters to be a Party tank.
Able to take Damage, Block Passages, provide a meat sheild for the solft little elven wizards to cast behind.


NOTE: Excluding druids
Druids are: I turn in to a Dire Bear, How do you like that?!

I would exclude clerics, except that my Warlock (follows) is better at tanking than any cleric is can think of of the top of my head.


I Nominate:
Warlock:

With Feats:
Medium Armour proficiency
Battle Caster (increase the Armour level you can ignore Arcane spell failure from)

Combat Casting and Skill Focus Concentration: if you find you keep getting hit at when failing to cast defenively.
Fey Heritage Feats, esp Fey Skin, for more Caster Goodies and improved DR/cold Iron

Point Blank Shot: (as the version from C.Arc)

Equipt:
Mithiel Full Plate (+8 AC + 3dex mod to AC (which is pretty close to the highest dex mod a warlock might have)

Summery of benefits:
DR X/cold Iron (which goes nicely with decent HP, and since a warlock uses CON for Concentration, and has d6 HD, shouldn't be extremely low)
Resistance 5 (or 10 at higher lvls) to two times of energy (stacks nicely with DR don't it?)
Fast Healing. (free up the Cleric, live without the cleric)


What Builds would you use to replace the Tank?

[Saph]

The traditional one is an Abjurant Champion gish. Far better AC than any normal melee class, and your choice of buff spells to enhance your tanking abilities. Jade Phoenix Mage works nicely too.

[Cyclocone]

No 'zillas?

Well then, i nominate venerable Gray Elf Wizard with Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

Benefits:
Has the hitpoints of a barbarian and 9th level casting for stuff like polymorph, bite of the werebear, veil of undeath, ironguard, greater blink, greater mirror image, heroics, overland flight, greater dimension door, spell turning, energy immunity +tons of stuff i'm forgetting.


...oh hell, just about any Wizard could do it really

[The Dark Fiddler]

Our Cleric rolled pretty well on his HP, and at level 3 has only 1 less hp than the level 4 Barbarian. Also has a good AC.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dragonfire Adept, hands down. Wear full plate and use a tower shield, nonproficiency doesn't matter since you never have to make an attack roll. Pick all day buffs for your invocations, such as Endure Exposure for everyone in your party. They get a natural armor bonus as they gain levels, d8 HP, and even DR/Magic fairly early. Make it a Mineral Warrior for even more tankiness.

Get Entangling Exhalation and spam that debuff! Even if they make the save they'll still take half damage and get entangled, suffering penalties to attacks, Dex and thus AC, Reflex saves, and Finesse/ranged attacks, and moves at half speed and can't run or charge. They'd be risking AoOs if they try to move to the softer characters, plus they'd probably have to spend an entire round moving just to get to them, so they're more likely to focus on the guy who's barking fire at them.

Put max ranks in Intimidate, get Never Outnumbered, and pick up Imperious Command at level 6, so once per encounter you'll have an AoE Cower effect. You could even go something like Dragonfire Adept 2/ (Zhentarim) Fighter 9+/ whatever so you can demoralize as a swift action every round, though opponents such as outsiders with energy resistances across the board will just ignore your entangle cheese. You could instead dip two levels into Wolf Totem Barbarian and get Knock-Down and Combat Reflexes, using medium armor and a heavy shield that you'd be proficient with. With that you could go back into DFA to boost your breath damage and be a credible melee threat, probably get Extra Rage and maybe even Intimidating Rage if you take Imperious Command.


A Dragonborn of Bahamut with the Heart aspect, Entangling Exhalation, and Recover Breath can spam an entangle every few rounds and do basically the same thing regardless of what classes you use. Start with a Water Halfling or Orc and it keeps the ability score adjustments and swim speed, add on Mineral Warrior after Dragonborn and you end up with the ultimate tanking race. Make it a Crusader, if that can be considered a caster, and use your breath weapon whenever you don't get a strike you'd want to use or if you don't need to use Stone Power to absorb some delayed damage. That ends up being and unkillable damage sponge who can self-heal, who's better equipped to force opponents to focus on him than nearly every other tanking build.

[Chineselegolas]

Sorcerer.
No seriously, the spell shield alternate class feature to give up spell slots to prevent damage. Then there is one of the wings spells that prevents all damage from the first attack on him and grants him cover for the rest of the round.

[Prime32]

Warforged Psion (shaper) sharing vigor with his psicrystal, then using share pain with it. Psionic repair damage is a potent self-heal (and can, too, be shared with your psicrystal).

Consider slapping on the dragonborn template for more Con (and wings!). Also consider Adamantine Body (psionics don't have somatic components).


If you want to be good in melee as well, go for a "big guy is with me" build - take the Improved Psicrystal feat repeatedly until your psicrystal has a ton of HD, feats and BAB, then use metamorphosis to turn it into some kind of golem.

[PId6]

Wizard, Shapechange, win.

[thorgrim29]

Duskblade?

[Flickerdart]

Why do casters need to be the party tank when they can make party tanks?

[Epinephrine]

Binders can make pretty solid tanks.
With a vestige bound they can select Pact augmentations, gaining DR/- or AC, or HP.
Defensively, you can gain DR from some vestiges, as well as resistances and immunities, heavy fortification, fast healing, temp HP, you name it pretty much. Just a matter of choosing the right vestiges for the situation.

I don't know binder well enough to give great specifics, but being able to have DR10-15, heavy armour, and share any damage that does get through with an enemy (effectively doubling your HP as well as causing damage) starts sounding like decent tanking. As you gain levels, you gain immunity to energy drain and negative levels and eventually immunity to all mind affecting spells and abilities, which doesn't hurt if you are going to be up front in full plate.

[mikej]

Why do casters need to be the party tank when they can make party tanks?

this^

Play a Wizard/Malconvoker and summon tanks.

[Thrawn183]

+1 for Dragonfire Adept.

d8 HD and CON based. Has class bonuses to natural armor. Good fort save. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand what happens when you stick one in full plate.

[Draz74]

Warforged Psion (shaper) sharing vigor with his psicrystal, then using share pain with it. Psionic repair damage is a potent self-heal (and can, too, be shared with your psicrystal).

Consider slapping on the dragonborn template for more Con (and wings!). Also consider Adamantine Body (psionics don't have somatic components).

Add in the Astral Construct power, and this gets my vote.

But if I have to add a new class to the discussion ... Artificer can also make a pretty decent tank. Especially a Warforged (again, for easy self-healing).

[Optimystik]

Warforged Psion (shaper) sharing vigor with his psicrystal, then using share pain with it. Psionic repair damage is a potent self-heal (and can, too, be shared with your psicrystal).

...I'm suddenly extremely compelled to play a Warforged Shaper.

[Gnaeus]

Dread Necromancer tanks about as well as the OP's warlock (DR Magic & Bludgeoning, wears light armor (which could be upgraded), same d6+con hp level until it becomes undead and shifts to d12s, can heal itself.

And then at some point he realizes that tanking is a losers game and he animates some giants to tank for him. Or rebukes encountered undead into doing it.

And at high levels, the DN gets 9th level spells. After taking Arcane Disciple and a spell list enhancing PRC, this vaults him into heights of power otherwise only witnessed by tier 1 and 2s.

Clerics, of course, are even better.

[Dyllan]

+1 for Dragonfire Adept.

d8 HD and CON based. Has class bonuses to natural armor. Good fort save. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand what happens when you stick one in full plate.

Am I unaware of some way to bypass spell failure? Because from what I read here: http://tinyurl.com/n9xlkq all of a Dragonfire Adept's invocations are subject to arcane spell failure.

[Thrawn183]

True, but it's breath weapons are supernatural and therefore aren't affected. Most of the invocations you get last all day and therefore it doesn't matter if they are affected by ASF.

Also, if we want to include feats, endurance+steadfast determination will give the DFA a fortitude and will save as good as any other class in the game.

The class also has access to great skills.

Finally, breath weapons are usable while grappled (if not while pinned I think) which makes them more difficult to shut down than your standard wimpy guy.

[Sharkman1231]

My lvl12 cleric took on our party's minmaxed lvl12 barbarian in one-on-one combat,the rules were that I could cast only buffs, no offensive or healing spells. The barbarian had roughly 200 hp in rage. I had about a 27 AC and ~120 hp after buffs. After I cast Rightous might ,Divine Favor, divine power(I think that's the name), magic vestment, bears endurance, bless and GMW. I brought him down to ~20 hp before I died, and he forgot his rage ran out by then, so I sould have won(I remembered that much later). If that isn't a tank, I don't know what is. This is soooooo annoying to type on an iPhone(I'm in drivers ed)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

For an Arcanist, being a tank is far less useful than making a tank. Planar Binding, Summon X, Dominate, Craft Construct, Animate Dead. Wizards do any of them, but Malconvoker, Beguiler, Artificer, and Dread Necro do specific tanks better.
To be a tank, the Necropolitan Dread Necro is nice(blow up everything around me and heal my allies, infinite healing, great touch attacks, d12+bonuses HD, and eventual Lichdom). Other classes work, too(I've heard nice things about Incarnum) but if you're a caster in melee, you're doing something wrong.

[erikun]

I thought "Caster Party Tank" was already the definition of the Cleric.

[Milskidasith]

Clerics can outtank and out melee most core classes with only core spells. They're pretty awesome. Not to mention their spells are still great.

[Doc Roc]

I'mmmmaaaa Cleerrrric!
:: makes blubbly goldfish noises and bounces around his little tidal pool ::

Dmm: persist + divine power + trollshape?

[Bayar]

Iot7fv. Also totemists.

[Curmudgeon]

Clerics are tankerific because they can take advantage of a nifty rules exploit for armor, as follows.

1) Start with the right clothing.

Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.

2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus with Magic Vestment:

You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

This costs more than regular armor (64,000 gp for a +8 robe, plus a spell; vs. 35,500 gp for +5 mithral full plate; both +13 AC), but has no DEX bonus limit vs. +3 max DEX, and also allows the Monk's Belt boost to add their high WIS modifier.

Add in the War domain for martial prowess, and (of course) Divine Power and you're good to go.

You can do pretty much the same thing with a Favored Soul instead of a Cleric; just pick a deity that offers a good favored weapon, like Kossuth (Forgotten Realms fire god) for spiked chain. The armor stuff works exactly the same.

[olentu]

Clerics are tankerific because they can take advantage of a nifty rules exploit for armor, as follows.

1) Start with the right clothing.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus with Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

This costs more than regular armor (64,000 gp for a +8 robe, plus a spell; vs. 35,500 gp for +5 mithral full plate; both +13 AC), but has no DEX bonus limit vs. +3 max DEX, and also allows the Monk's Belt boost to add their high WIS modifier.

Add in the War domain for martial prowess, and (of course) Divine Power and you're good to go.

You can do pretty much the same thing with a Favored Soul instead of a Cleric; just pick a deity that offers a good favored weapon, like Kossuth (Forgotten Realms fire god) for spiked chain. The armor stuff works exactly the same.

Well enchanted clothing might not be regular clothing.

[PinkysBrain]

What Builds would you use to replace the Tank?

There is only one tank build, the Knight, and it can't be replaced (although you can perfectly well play without a tank at all). A tank's task is not primarily to soak damage, a tank's task first and foremost is to hold aggro.

You can make a character which can protect the casters somewhat with either a psionic character with dimension swap, or an arcane caster with benign transposition ... but it's not quite a tank.

[Kelpstrand]

Why has no one even mentioned Druid yet?

a) Better non reflex saves than most characters, depending on wildshape, better reflex saves than most characters.

b) AC: are you kidding? Wild Dragonhide Mountain Plate + Monk's Belt with Wilding Clasp+Natural Armor of Wildshape form:

10 + Dex of Wildshape + Wis + Natural Armor + 10-15 from armor = Tons.

c) Focus on Wis/Con, get good HP, play something stupid like Lesser Aasimar reincarnated as a Dwarf for more Con.

d) Mini tank (TM)

e) Oh yeah, and you are a druid, cast the spells that makes people hold still, you get more and better than Wizards.

[olentu]

Why has no one even mentioned Druid yet?

a) Better non reflex saves than most characters, depending on wildshape, better reflex saves than most characters.

b) AC: are you kidding? Wild Dragonhide Mountain Plate + Monk's Belt with Wilding Clasp+Natural Armor of Wildshape form:

10 + Dex of Wildshape + Wis + Natural Armor + 10-15 from armor = Tons.

c) Focus on Wis/Con, get good HP, play something stupid like Lesser Aasimar reincarnated as a Dwarf for more Con.

d) Mini tank (TM)

e) Oh yeah, and you are a druid, cast the spells that makes people hold still, you get more and better than Wizards.

They were excluded in the opening post.

[Gnaeus]

There is only one tank build, the Knight, and it can't be replaced (although you can perfectly well play without a tank at all). A tank's task is not primarily to soak damage, a tank's task first and foremost is to hold aggro.

Knight can't really do anything that Paladin can't do better (And Paladin can't do anything that Cleric can't do better). The Knights challenge ability, which you seem to be relying on to hold aggro, is useless against a wide variety of opponents, and if the others are intelligent they have easy ways around it, like backing up and blasting the party with AOEs that happen to include the knight.

You don't hold aggro by making opponents make will saves using an off stat for DC, you hold aggro by being a big enough threat that enemies will die if they ignore you. Any of the casters listed above does that better than the Knight, who is dismissed as a nonentity by any enemy who realizes what he is.