Nuking without Metamagic?

[Alcopop]

Okay, so the spell darkbolt(SpC) fires off 7 missiles (cl 14) at 2d8 per missile. Each of these missiles are touch attacks which got me thinking.

Could you combine this spell with, say, divine might to add cha to damage per missile? Now divine might says it adds to weapon damage, but as it's a weapon like spell it should still qualify for the extra damage.

So let’s go for a Cha or 30. if it works that’s an extra 70 damage on top of 14d8 (assuming they all hit) not too bad, but not fantastic, so i'll open this up too you guys.

Can you think of any other ways (bar metamagic) of adding damage to this?

(The only other thing i can think of is weapon spec, and that means losing 4 caster levels for a lousy 2.)

[valadil]

I think Warmage has an option for adding int to damage. I'm not sure if that would add to each missile though.

[Telonius]

I don't have SpC on me at the moment - is it arcane or divine? If Arcane, you could spice it up with some Sneak Attack if you go Arcane Trickster; if Divine, Sacred Outlaw lets your rogue levels stack with cleric for sneak attack dice.

[JeenLeen]

I don't have SpC on me at the moment - is it arcane or divine? If Arcane, you could spice it up with some Sneak Attack if you go Arcane Trickster; if Divine, Sacred Outlaw lets your rogue levels stack with cleric for sneak attack dice.

Spellwarp Sniper from Complete Scroundel has similiar abilities. It has the prereq of Sneak Attack and maybe Point Blank Shot. It gives you some archery-related feats that can apply to weapon-like spells (as well as letting you warp most if not all spells into rays, thereby increasing your amount of weapon-like spells.)

[Cyclocone]

These spells usually count as volley attacks, meaning only the first bolt would get the bonus damage, regardless of source.

[Glyde]

These spells usually count as volley attacks, meaning only the first bolt would get the bonus damage, regardless of source.

Yeppers. Same with chain missile, magic missile, scorching ray, fire shuriken, etc.

Though that last one might be different... Anybody got a verdict?

[Telonius]

Kind of getting it in sideways, but spell storing arrows and Greater Manyshot could do it. Probably too feat-intensive to pull off effectively, though.

[Keld Denar]

Darkbolt is Divine, and it only appears on the Darkness domain list at level 5. That means its limited to a handful of Clerics and....just about every Archivist with access to SpC.

It has 2 modes. The first IS a volley attack where you fire all missiles at one time. The other mode fires 1 the first round, and one every round thereafter as a free action. This mode is not a volley.

Oh, and each bolt has a chance to daze the target...its pretty sick, you can chain daze one creature for multiple rounds...as a free action...with free damage tacked on...just a save every round while you do other stuff.

[PinkysBrain]

Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round.
When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not.

So no. 10ch10ch

[Eloel]

These spells usually count as volley attacks, meaning only the first bolt would get the bonus damage, regardless of source.

If you make multiple attack rolls, you add multiple bonus damage. Scorching Ray gets a handful of dice every ray for a sorcerer/rogue multiclass...

(Bonus question; What is the lowest level spell with the most attack-rolls required? Meteor Swarm is 4 rolls, but by that point, you can already kill anything you wish)

Anyone know any race or something that gets Scorching Ray at-will? That could make for a good Rogue build now that I think on it. (3 RTAs as a Standard Action, with 4d6 weapon-damage? Yes please.)

[Signmaker]

Kind of getting it in sideways, but spell storing arrows and Greater Manyshot could do it. Probably too feat-intensive to pull off effectively, though.

I could swear that doesn't work.

[Keld Denar]

If you make multiple attack rolls, you add multiple bonus damage. Scorching Ray gets a handful of dice every ray for a sorcerer/rogue multiclass...

Go reread Complete Arcane's section on Weaponlike Spells. Actually, just read Pinky's post above yours. Scorching Ray is a volley attack, and volley attacks only apply precision damage once.

Darkbolt has 2 forms. One is a volley like Scorching Ray, but the other is 1 attack roll per round until you are out of bolts. Since its multiple attacks on seperate rounds, each should apply precision damage.

And to the OP, no. Divine Might is only with works with weapon damage rolls.

DIVINE MIGHT [DIVINE]
<snip>
Benefit : As a free action, spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts to add your Charisma bonus to your weapon damage for 1 full round.

Weapon damage would include natural and manufactured weapons, but not weaponlike spells.

What you DO want is Knowledge Devotion

Knowledge Devotion
<snip>
You then receive an insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls against that creature type for the remainder of the combat. The amount of the bonus depends on your Knowledge check result, as given on the following table.
<snip>

Since its unspecified, anything with an attack roll would get bonus damage. That includes EVERY bolt in a Darkbolt, since KD isn't identified as precision based damage.

[Eloel]

You could also go Psion, and Energy Missile to your heart's content. At level 20, that's 20d6+40 (110) damage at 5 people closeby (total: 550), without even making your build towards it. (You only need 1 feat [the one that adds +1 damage/dice on 1 element], and 1 power). You're still a fully efficient Psion on top of that.

[Cyclocone]

If you make multiple attack rolls, you add multiple bonus damage. Scorching Ray gets a handful of dice every ray for a sorcerer/rogue multiclass...

Skip says no.

[Telonius]

it only appears on the Darkness domain list at level 5.

So above the spell level limit for Spell Storing. What a shame.

[Frosty]

You don't get precision or crit damage more than once, but you DO get other bonus sources of damage.

For example, Manyshot is a vollet. Yet each arrow can benefit from the Flaming enhancement from the bow.

[Kelpstrand]

Honestly, volley attacks is a stupid idea, and it doesn't exist in Core.

If you don't have Complete Mage and you are playing Core only, Scorching Ray does extra damage.

If you are playing with complete mage, throwing daggers is a volley attack so you only get extra damage on the first dagger, and that's dumb.

There is nothing overpowered about getting SA on multiple scorching rays, since Rogues can already get like 4 attacks at level 5 and 8 attacks at level 13 anyway, and they have more SA dice than you.

I personally recommend to everyone ever that you just ignore stupid volley attacks that were made up in complete mage to nerf SA using Wizards, who didn't even need a nerf anyway.

[sofawall]

Volley attacks never made sense to me anyway, what is and what isn't a volley?

Is throwing a bunch of daggers a volley? Then why isn't stabbing with the same daggers?

I allow sneak attack once per attack roll.

[Signmaker]

Volley attacks never made sense to me anyway, what is and what isn't a volley?

Is throwing a bunch of daggers a volley? Then why isn't stabbing with the same daggers?

I allow sneak attack once per attack roll.

Volley Type Attacks

Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack.

Dat. Personally, I kind of like the idea of volley attacks. They thematically make sense.

[sofawall]

It still doesn't make any sense. A full attack is a volley, so only one of the attacks gets sneak attack?

[Signmaker]

To my knowledge, a full attack isn't a volley. Throwing three skullmarbles with a single iterative attack would be, though.

[Keld Denar]

A full attack is NOT a volley. A full attack is a full attack. Whether you are fighting with 1 weapon or 2, each attack gets SA.

A volley is when you hit multiple times with a single attack. A Multishot is a volley. A Palm Throw is a volley. A Scorching Ray is a volley. They are all single attacks that hit muliple times.

If you are a Master Thrower and you have TWF and Rapid Shot, and you throw 3 daggers in a round (1 + 1 Rapid + 1 Offhand), you get Sneak Attack on all 3. If you use Master Thrower's Palm Throw to double your attacks (essentially throwing 2 with each toss), you still only get SA on 3 attacks, rather than all 6.

THATS the difference between a volley and a non-volley attack.

[sofawall]

I still don't understand why Scorching Ray is a volley, it has multiple rays and multiple attack rolls. If the rays attack different targets, is it a volley still?

[Signmaker]

It's a single spell. Simple as that. You're getting three attacks from one source, even if it's three different attack rolls.

[sofawall]

Yet multiple attacks with a crossbow come from just one source...

I'm sorry, the rule just seems stupid to me.

[Telonius]

One difference: full attack is a full-round action. Casting a spell is (generally) not.

[9mm]

Yet multiple attacks with a crossbow come from just one source...

I'm sorry, the rule just seems stupid to me.

no they didn't, you fired 3 fully distinct, and independent bolts; you loaded the string 3 times, and you squeezed the release 3 different times. the thing you have to remeber is how percision damage works, flavor wise, is that your SO good with your weapon you hit an especially open vital part of there anatomy when you strike, but a volley is filling the air with projectiles. you trade accuracy for damage at least in terms of flavor, if not mechanicly.

[Starbuck_II]

Yeppers. Same with chain missile, magic missile, scorching ray, fire shuriken, etc.

Though that last one might be different... Anybody got a verdict?

Fire Shuriken as written isn't a volley because it doesn't shoot anything.

It acts like Explosive runes: a cast prior to battle spell that lasts till used.
Duration means they last forever till used.

[sofawall]

One difference: full attack is a full-round action. Casting a spell is (generally) not.

Empowered Scorching Ray, cast by a sorcerer.

[Kelpstrand]

Actually, a full attack is a volley by any interpretation that makes scorching ray a volley:

"Volley Type Attacks

Sometimes, you make multiple attacks with the same attack roll, such as when you use the Manyshot feat, or you make multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack, such as with the scorching ray spell. When you do so, only the first attack in the volley can be a sneak attack."

No, obviously stuff like multiple attacks with the same attack roll is fine, that's how it's always been. But let's look at multiple attack rolls as part of the same attack:

1) Palm throw
2) Full attack action
3) Scorching Ray

Palm throw gives you two attacks. It gives a new attack, and therefore clearly isn't multiple attack roles with the same attack. Any interpretation that would declare an ability that gives extra attacks as being a volley would have to include full attack.

Scorching Ray: Scorching ray gives you new attacks. It does not give you new attack rolls with an attack, it gives you new attacks, each ray is an attacks, not an attack roll that is part of a single attack.

Similarly, a full attack is an attack action. Seriously, a full attack is one action that gives you multiple new attacks, exactly like palm throw or scorching ray or greater many shot. And when it grants you those new attacks, they are as separate and distinct as separate attacks granted by scorching ray.

There is no way around the scorching ray -> full attack equivalence except that they decided Scorching Ray giving SA multiple times was bad, so they explicitly declared it a volley for no reason because it doesn't fit their definition of volley.