I really want to optimize my Beguiler build.

[Boostaloo]

I am playing a Half-elf Beguiler in a campaign. Currently I am level 3, but I am trying to plan out my future.

Stats:

8 STR
12 DEX
12 CON
16 INT
12 WIS
14 CHA

I have not yet picked my Advanced Learning spell, and I have every intention of going with beguiler for all 20 levels. I suppose I need help with Advanced learning selections and feat progression.

Right Now I have:

Improved Initiative
Spell Focus Enchantment
Great Spell Focus Enchantment


Books: I can use Core + Any Complete book + PHBII + Official Non-setting books

Class: I do not want to prestige class

Concept: Think Jack Sparrow meets Sylar. The character is able to take on the role of diplomat and charmer, but has his own agenda. He is smart and calculated, but much more of a thinker than a fighter.

Other: Party Set-Up includes (Elven Fighter/Wizard, Halfling Rogue, Human Barbarian, Dwarven Fighter, Elven Wizard, Human Cleric, and Me) I am hoping to fill a support/crowd control role.

[Jalor]

Take Power Word Pain for your Advanced Learning spell. Make sure you grab a level of Mindbender at 6th level, so you can take Shadow Conjuration with your second Advanced Learning. Take Arcane Disciple feats to expand your spell list; I recommend Travel first.

[Keld Denar]

There are 2 awesome feats in Complete Mage you might want to look into. One is Frightening Illusion which adds a minor fear effect when you cast Illusions. Fear stacks, so if one of your melee folks puts ranks in Intimidate, you can easily make someone wet their pants in terror as a side effect of being a total badass. The other is Unsettling Enchantment, which gives some pretty nasty penalties when you cast Enchantments.

Since 95% of your spells are either Illusions or Enchantments, you'll get a great deal of secondary effects. Take one or the other...or both, if you feel like it.

Probably the best Beguiler feat is Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon. It allows you to sacrifice 2 spell slots of the same level to cast a spell from a spell slot 1 level higher. The has the duel effect of getting more mileage our of your lowest level spell slots AND giving you access to spells ahead of when you'd normally get them. For instance, a 6th level Beguiler could sacrifice 2 3rd level spell slots to get a 4th level slot. Since Beguilers automatically know all spells on their list, that means you can cast any spell off the 4th level Beguiler list a full 2 levels early, although this burns you out REALLY quickly.

EDIT:
And yea...the Mindbender dip. Do it as your level 6. Its good.

[Boostaloo]

I considered the Mindbender dip because of the added prowess in Advanced learning spell selection, but honestly the overcoming of spell resistance at level 20 is HUGE. Not to mention once I am level 20 and epic, character advancement is different , and I wouldn't get access to that class ability.

[Glimbur]

You still get most class abilities as normal in Epic. You can't get more than 20 levels of spells/day and spells known, but you can get a Caster Level over 20. Pick up a wand of Assay Spell Resistance and UMD it; Mindsight is harder to get via spells and items.

[UserClone]

You don't know the spells you aren't yet capable of casting. Once you gain the ability to cast a given level of spells, you know all the ones of that spell level. However, according to the sage, you can use Versatile Spellcaster to metamagic your highest level of spells, so it's still quite useful.

[PinkysBrain]

I considered the Mindbender dip because of the added prowess in Advanced learning spell selection, but honestly the overcoming of spell resistance at level 20 is HUGE. Not to mention once I am level 20 and epic, character advancement is different , and I wouldn't get access to that class ability.

Hmm? You just don't get normal BAB/Save progression anymore, for the rest class progression is normal to 20 (or 10 for PrCs) before you enter the epic progression.

[Eloel]

You should get Lightning Bolt as a spell and go into Elemental Savant.
...
...

Not that Beguiler? Ignore me.

[Keld Denar]

Do you really anticipate going epic? I mean, the Mindbender dip gives you somethign that will be useful from level 6 on up. It'll be something that impacts your character's life for most of your character's life.

Level 20 is level 20...Its a long ways away. If you really are going to epic levels, then being without the ability from level 20 to level 21 isn't gonna be a huge loss.

I'd rather take something that increases your characters overall power and prowass for the better part of his life span than planning for 20 or so.

EDIT:

Not that Beguiler? Ignore me.

Beguiler Beguiler?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You don't know the spells you aren't yet capable of casting. Once you gain the ability to cast a given level of spells, you know all the ones of that spell level. However, according to the sage, you can use Versatile Spellcaster to metamagic your highest level of spells, so it's still quite useful.

But if you can metamagic your highest level spells, you can cast from that level, and so you automatically know that level of spells.

[Eloel]

Beguiler Beguiler?

Supposedly, since Beguiler would be the only word it can say

[Boostaloo]

Okay well it does sound nice to increase my versitility by taking a level in Mindbender. Which way would you all go with Feats? I was planning on taking Focus/Greater Focus illusion and Spell/greater spell penetration. Are there better options like the other ones suggested? Also for Advance Learning what would be your suggestions?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Okay well it does sound nice to increase my versitility by taking a level in Mindbender. Which way would you all go with Feats? I was planning on taking Focus/Greater Focus illusion and Spell/greater spell penetration. Are there better options like the other ones suggested? Also for Advance Learning what would be your suggestions?

Mindsight and Versatile Spellcaster for feats. For Advanced Learning, snag Shadow Conj. Does your DM allow Eclectic Learning?

[Frosty]

You can mess up beguilers?

[Boostaloo]

I am not sure what Eclectic Learning is.

[Leewei]

I'm a huge fan of this class. I'm currently playing a level 11 Beguiler.

Items to get:

Headband of Intellect -- bonus spells and higher DCs are always great.

Mesmerist's Gloves -- add a target for a single ENchantment spell 3rd level or lower, twice per day. When combined with hesitate, you put two targets on ice as an immediate action.

Cloak of Charisma -- added charisma aids your attempts to command charmed creatures.

Unsettling Enchantment as a feat is pretty meh. It gives a -2 AC and Attack for one round to any creature that made or failed a saving throw against an enchantment from you. Which is nice, but really, you can probably do better.

Speaking of which, Rapid Metamagic is pretty nice, since it allows you to apply metamagic to your Immediate Action spells.

Distract assailant isn't a bad Advanced Learning pick, especially if you have a Rogue in your party. A lot of your effectiveness comes from bilking opponents out of their Dex bonus. This allows you to do it once a round as a Swift (or was that Immediate?)action.

The Coercive Spell metamagic feat can be pretty nice. I believe it penalizes Will saves of creatures that take damage from one of your spells. This makes the various whelm spells a bit nicer.

Handy tactics:

Glitterdust carpet-bomber -- blind opponents are badly penalized in a fight. Even better, no Dexterity bonus means your effectiveness goes up.

Greater mirror image comes along at 8th level, and is sheer awesome. It affects most creatures, and makes you nearly untouchable. Save your Immediate action for this if you haven't cast it yet in a fight.

Legion of sentinels for brutal area lockdown. Being harried by archers? Ready an action to cast this the next time they plink at you. Laugh as the ranged combatant is shredded by incorporeal touch attach AoOs. Also handy against incorporeal creatures.

Speaking of which, solid fog combines wonderfully with legion. It means the opponent has to stand utterly still; moving at all provokes several AoOs, since there is no 5' step in the fog.

Swift etherealness and solid fog together screw up ethereal creatures wonderfully. Go ethereal, glom them up, then revert back to the Material Plane while Shadows, Wraiths or whatever are reduced to 5' moves with blindness at 10' or further range.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I am not sure what Eclectic Learning is.

Warmage(AKA the Evoker version of the Beguiler) ACF that replaces Advanced Learning. Allows you to learn spells outside your 2 schools at one Spell Level higher. Pretty good.

[Boostaloo]

What sourcebook is that in?

[Frosty]

In the PHB2, the same book as the Beguiler.

[Boostaloo]

Oh yeah, duh! Yeah he isn't to hip on Alternative rules. For the sake of argument say he doesn't allow it, but when I find out for sure I will let you all know.

[Keld Denar]

Unsettling Enchantment is better when you have another caster in your party. You try to Enchant something, and if it works...WIN! If it doesn't, the other caster hits it with something hard, and the -2 save helps him out. I like it because normally Enchantments are all or nothing. You either win, or you lose. YMMV.

[BenTheJester]

What are good spells to get with Ecletic Learning?

[mcl01]

There are 2 awesome feats in Complete Mage you might want to look into. One is Frightening Illusion which adds a minor fear effect when you cast Illusions. Fear stacks, so if one of your melee folks puts ranks in Intimidate, you can easily make someone wet their pants in terror as a side effect of being a total badass. The other is Unsettling Enchantment, which gives some pretty nasty penalties when you cast Enchantments.

No such thing. There IS, however, the dazzling illusion feat which makes characters dazzled within 30'. I think you're confusing it with a class feature of the Nightmare Spinner class, which causes anyone to be shaken for 1 round whenever they try to disbelieve one of your glamers/figments. Or the Fearsome necromancy feat which does the same thing with necromancy spells, except it doesn't stack with other fear effects.

[Keld Denar]

Yea, I realized that when I went to look it up. I was actually misremembering Fearsome Necromancy. That one is good, but not as much for a Beguiler...

Stacking fear effects if crazy fun!

[Boostaloo]

Ok he says no eclectic learning, and I can't use mindbender because he views it as a Psionic class. Psionics are banned from this game.

[Jalor]

Beguiler Beguiler?

Beguilers are intelligent and have LA+0 (cohort). You can, in fact, have a Beguiler with a Beguiler Beguiler. Maybe even some Beguiler Beguiler followers. You could be a Beguiler with an army of Beguiler Beguilers.

Ok he says no eclectic learning, and I can't use mindbender because he views it as a Psionic class. Psionics are banned from this game.

Wat? Mindbender progresses arcane casting. Is it the telepathy? There are many nonpsionic creatures with telepathy as well; are they all banned too?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ok he says no eclectic learning, and I can't use mindbender because he views it as a Psionic class. Psionics are banned from this game.

IIRC it only progresses Arcane spells. In fact, IIRC it was printed in CArc, before 3.5 Psionics existed.

[Keld Denar]

Ok he says no eclectic learning, and I can't use mindbender because he views it as a Psionic class. Psionics are banned from this game.

Wait wait wait wait....Mindbender is psionic? Then why is it in the book COMPLETE ARCANE? If a Mindbender is psionic, then so is the ENTIRE ENCHANTMENT SCHOOL, and the bulk of the Beguilers class features. Tell your DM that the community thinks hes...well, I'll let you figure that one out. ;)

Beguilers are intelligent and have LA+0 (cohort). You can, in fact, have a Beguiler with a Beguiler Beguiler. Maybe even some Beguiler Beguiler followers. You could be a Beguiler with an army of Beguiler Beguilers.

Come on now...lets not be ludacris!

[sofawall]

Come on now...lets not be ludacris!

Me: Can I be a Beguiler?
DM: Sure, why not.
Me: Ok, I guess... Factotum, maybe?
DM: Wait, I thought you were a Beguiler?
Me: Yeah, the race.
DM: Wait, you can be a Beguiler Beguiler? They are running out of words!

[Kallisti]

If your DM will let you sneak it in, take Tatoo Focus from the DMG (it's a feat, but described in a sidebar by the Red Wizard PrC.) It's like Spell Focus and Spell Penetration all wrapped up into one feat, and it stacks with Spell Focus...