[3.5] Knowledge checks

[Choco]

Was just wondering if there are any official rules anywhere in regards to knowledge checks to determine if your character recognizes a monster or can figure out what class and/or level a monster/npc is. Far as I can tell there is no "Knowledge: monsters" skill, so which of the knowledge skills do y'all usually lump this under?

[Fax Celestis]

From the Knowledge skill:

* Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
* Dungeoneering (aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking)
* Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)
* Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin)
* Religion (gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead)
* The planes (the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, magic related to the planes)

[Johel]

• Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin)
• Arcana (constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
• Dungeoneering (aberrations, oozes)
• Local (humanoids)
• Religion (undead)
• The planes (outsiders, elementals)

Check
Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions).

In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.

For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/knowledge.htm

EDIT : NINJA !!!

[OMG PONIES]

How much of an action is a knowledge check? Immediate, free, swift, move, standard?

[Human Paragon 3]

Takes no action. Either you know something or you don't.

[Curmudgeon]

How much of an action is a knowledge check? Immediate, free, swift, move, standard?

It's no action at all.

Action: Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t.

[Choco]

Ah thank you for that, guess the monsters are spread out.

That's one problem out of the way, but there's still one left!

Now what about guessing at the "fighting school and skill" (AKA class and level) of an NPC with class levels?

Oriental Adventures had the Iaijutsu skill that you could use to determine the level and class of your opponent during a Iaijutsu duel, and that is the closest I have seen to something like this.

[lesser_minion]

In general, class and level aren't considered to be observable quantities - a Knowledge check would merely tell you the capabilities a particular individual is known to possess - e.g. "he has studied an ancient technique that allows him to shrug off almost any affliction" (or, in metagame language, "he knows Iron Heart Surge") or "she can cast potent magic that can..." (which you could cast into metagame language as "she can cast at least 4th-level spells").

Those would come under Knowledge (local). The usual DC for this sort of thing is 10 + CR, and every 5 points you beat the DC yields another piece of information, as normal.

The 'capabilities' possessed by a character could be arranged along the lines of:

Base DC: an iconic or defining capability such as Barbarian Rage. For casters, psionic characters, martial adepts and similar, you should pick maybe two to four options the character is likely to use in a fight.

Base DC + 5: If the character is affiliated with a guild or organisation, this level of success will usually reveal it. This will usually also make light of any prestige classes.

Base DC + 10: By this point, you can probably tell the player how powerful the character is overall - i.e. their class level.

Each +5: Pick maybe one or two feats, spells, powers, invocations, talents, manoeuvres or similar options and mention them to the player.

[Johel]

• Check his gear ?
• Send commoners after him and watch them die ?
• Cast a magic missile to see if he can block/dispel/dodge it ?
• Kill him then ask the coroner ?
• Ask him what's his "field of study" ?

[quick_comment]

You might want to change this for humanoids, as higher level humanoids are likely to be better known.

They might be better known, but there is more myth and conjecture surrounding them. Its harder to know what is fact and what is fiction.

[Choco]

Hmmm, guess Iaijutsu shall remain the only option then. The explanation behind it makes sense for non-magic classes: you basically study your opponent's stance and attacks/movement to determine what fighting style (class) they practice and how advanced (level) they are in it.

Course then what if they are purposely trying to hide their true skills... then ya got an opposed spot/sense motive and bluff and it goes down hill from there.

Maybe a simple wisdom check of a set DC to determine that someone you have seen in action is either weaker than you, about the same skill, or more powerful (depending on what you saw)?

[Foryn Gilnith]

Why is fighting style tied to class in any meaningful way? Maybe this would work for feats, but I don't see class as having enough substance to identify thusly.

There is an application of Sense Motive in Complete Warrior that does something similar, but IIRC it works off CR in general. I think that's what you were getting at.
EDIT: CAdv, apparently, sorry.

[Curmudgeon]

Maybe a simple wisdom check of a set DC to determine that someone you have seen in action is either weaker than you, about the same skill, or more powerful (depending on what you saw)?

Actually, this is a Sense Motive check. The rules are in Complete Adventurer on pages 102-103.

[Saph]

If you're using ToB, you can learn the enemy's fighting school quite literally with the Martial Lore skill. Spellcraft and Psicraft can identify spells and powers, which is often enough to give a strong hint as to class and level. Put those together with observing enemy tactics, and you can often guess an enemy's build fairly accurately.

[Choco]

Ah K thanks guys, I think I got enough to work with now.

[Darrin]

Now what about guessing at the "fighting school and skill" (AKA class and level) of an NPC with class levels?

Oriental Adventures had the Iaijutsu skill that you could use to determine the level and class of your opponent during a Iaijutsu duel, and that is the closest I have seen to something like this.

In Masters of the Wild (3.0, but still legal for 3.5), there was a 1st level Druid spell called "Power Sight" that could tell you a creature's total HD. It won't tell you how many of those HD are class levels, though. There may be another 3.0 spell floating around that gives more detail.

Other than that, you'd have to rely on social engineering. Detect Thoughts, Commune, Contact Other Plane, etc. might reveal something. You could also Gather Info, Diplomacy, Bluff, Forgery, etc. to find info on the target's past, home town, upbringing, former mentors, and so forth.