Help Needed - Not Enough Feats (3.5 Gestalt)

[Eloel]

For a crazy build idea I have, I need a build with 18 feats at 9th level. Yes, I know it's alot. I've done the best I could find, but I just can't reach enough feats. Class-Features are pretty much irrelevant, so there's that. I currently can reach 16 feats, and need 2 more.

4 Level feats
1 Human feat
2 flaw feats
9 feats from fighter/feat rogue gestalt.

Anyone have anything to add in?

[Stegyre]

Are you already exploiting the martial training rogue variant? (Trade sneak attacks for fighter bonus feats.) Here.

[Eloel]

Yes I am. But since those pull from the same list, they're effectively the 'same' class feature, which means I need to adjust it so there's 1/level. That's doable, but leaves me with 16 feats :/

[Douglas]

This is very stinky optimization cheese, but:
Be an elf. Use the Chaos Shuffle to change your free weapon proficiencies to more useful feats. If you aren't the DM, you'll have to convince your DM to both allow this at all and allow you to hire someone to cast Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos for you multiple times.

[Dhavaer]

Swap human for elf and Chaos Shuffle?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What exactly are you building for? There may be other ways to do it.

That said, (fighter feat variant)Wizard 1/Human Paragon 2/Fighter 6//Martial Rogue 4/X 1/Martial Rogue 4
19 feats, and one level free.

[Eloel]

I'm already headed for the cheeseland, so I'll take a look at chaos shuffle.
I'm planning on getting;
Anvil of Thunder
Bear Fang
Three Mountains
High Sword Low Axe
Hammer's Edge
Crescent Moon
and all their prerequisites.

When I full-attack an enemy, they get;
Dazed, Fort negate
Prone, Fort negate
Nauseated, Fort negate
Trip-attacked
Disarm-attacked
Grapple-attacked

Aptitude weapons of DOOOOM! :p

[J.Gellert]

Ask your DM about geting more flaws. One can never have too many flaws.

[valadil]

What are the prereqs for all those crazy feats you listed? Maybe its possible to hit some of them with class levels isntead of feats.

[Eloel]

Bunch of Weapon Focuses, TWF, Improved TWF, Improved Trip/Bullrush/Grapple/Disarm, Power Attack.

[Curmudgeon]

Bunch of Weapon Focuses, TWF, Improved TWF, Improved Trip/Bullrush/Grapple/Disarm, Power Attack.

Go for items. Gloves of the Balanced Hand (Magic Item Compendium) will take care of either TWF or ITWF. Using a Battleaxe of the Bull (Arms and Equipment Guide) you'll get Improved Bull Rush. Or use a Disarming Flail (same book) and you'll get Improved Disarm.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

You just need WF for one kind of axe, hammer, dagger, and sword, since there's a bunch of overlap; a single level of swordsage will net you two of those thanks to picking Shadow Hand for Discipline Focus (dagger and short sword).

[Dragonmuncher]

Or you could just stagger the fighter/rogue levels so you get the feats one after another, instead of on the same level.

i.e. Do a level of Fighter/Druid, THEN keep doing fighter/martial rogue. Bonus feats every level!

[Person_Man]

I'm already headed for the cheeseland, so I'll take a look at chaos shuffle.
I'm planning on getting;
Anvil of Thunder
Bear Fang
Three Mountains
High Sword Low Axe
Hammer's Edge
Crescent Moon
and all their prerequisites.

When I full-attack an enemy, they get;
Dazed, Fort negate
Prone, Fort negate
Nauseated, Fort negate
Trip-attacked
Disarm-attacked
Grapple-attacked

Aptitude weapons of DOOOOM! :p

Wait, that makes no sense. Don't those feats require using different weapons?

Anvil of Thunder: Axe and Hammer
Bear Fang: Axe and Dagger
Three Mountains: Mace, Morning Star, or Greatclub
High Sword Low Axe: Axe and Sword
Hammer's Edge: Sword and Hammer
Crescent Moon: Sword and Dagger

You'd need Multiweapon Fighting and a race or build with 4ish arms, and you'd need to reliably hit with 3+ arms. Also, when Grappled, you can't make attacks with non-light weapons. And many enemies are immune to Disarm (because they don't carry weapons) or Nauseate (Undead, Constructs, etc).

If you want to consider multiple Saves per round, perhaps you should consider a Glaivelock build.

[Eloel]

Wait, that makes no sense. Don't those feats require using different weapons?

Anvil of Thunder: Axe and Hammer
Bear Fang: Axe and Dagger
Three Mountains: Mace, Morning Star, or Greatclub
High Sword Low Axe: Axe and Sword
Hammer's Edge: Sword and Hammer
Crescent Moon: Sword and Dagger

*points at Aptitude weapon enhancement from ToB*

[9mm]

You just need WF for one kind of axe, hammer, dagger, and sword, since there's a bunch of overlap; a single level of swordsage will net you two of those thanks to picking Shadow Hand for Discipline Focus (dagger and short sword).

THIS

Fighter can get you Mountains + another 3 feat require weapon style by itself.

Also Psywar will net you two and OA Samuri is a fighter re-fluffed, as is the Generic Warrior class in UA.

[quick_comment]

You can use warblade's weapon aptitude to reassign some of the weapon focuses you get from swordsage. So you can take the spiked chain and improved unarmed strike weapon focuses to ones you actually need.

[9mm]

You can use warblade's weapon aptitude to reassign some of the weapon focuses you get from swordsage.

not helpfull as you lose access to feats you no longer qualify for, he's got to take all those pre-reqs permenately.

Edit: honestly though IMO he should only focus on a few that synergise together. Grapple, and disarm doesn't add much while lightning mace would let things trigger more often.

[Eloel]

You can use warblade's weapon aptitude to reassign some of the weapon focuses you get from swordsage. So you can take the spiked chain and improved unarmed strike weapon focuses to ones you actually need.

Or I could discipline-focus on Tiger Claw, and get 6 Weapon Focuses to play around with.
That is 2 levels (costing, 1 feat?) shutting off my entire need for weapon focus feats. I think I can fit it now, thanks!

[JeenLeen]

If you do stagger Fighter and Martial Rogue, I think that Monk 1 ACF from UA can give you some of the prereq feats you might need.

Ex. of first two levels:
Fighter 1 x Monk 1 - Fighter bonus fighter feat and Monk ACF bonus feat
whatever x Martial Rogue 1 -Rogue bonus fighter feat

[Person_Man]

You can use warblade's weapon aptitude to reassign some of the weapon focuses you get from swordsage. So you can take the spiked chain and improved unarmed strike weapon focuses to ones you actually need.

Re-read Weapon Aptitude:

You also have the flexibility to adjust your weapon training. Each morning, you can spend 1 hour in weapon practice to change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). You must have the newly designated weapon available during your practice session to make this change. For example, if you wish to change the designated weapon for your Weapon Focus feat from greatsword to longsword, you must have a longsword available to practice with during your practice session.

You can adjust any number of your feats in this way, and you don't have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can't change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess. For instance, if you have both Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Specialization (longsword), you can't change the designated weapon for Weapon Focus unless you also change the weapon for Weapon Specialization in the same way.

All of the feats you've listed apply to more then a single weapon. And thus you can't apply Weapon Aptitude to them unless your DM rules otherwise.

Also, the Aptitude special ability does not negate the need to meet the pre-req for a feat. So even if you changed Three Mountains to apply to Axes, you'd still need Weapon Focus (Heavy Mace or Morning Star or Greatclub) as well as Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, and Power Attack.

[quick_comment]

Re-read Weapon Aptitude:



All of the feats you've listed apply to more then a single weapon. And thus you can't apply Weapon Aptitude to them unless your DM rules otherwise.

Also, the Aptitude special ability does not negate the need to meet the pre-req for a feat. So even if you changed Three Mountains to apply to Axes, you'd still need Weapon Focus (Heavy Mace or Morning Star or Greatclub) as well as Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, and Power Attack.

The discpline focus class feature gives you several weapon focus feats, which you then use the warblade class feature weapon aptitude to turn into weapon focus feats that satisfy the weapon style feat prereqs.

The style feats themselves are all applied to the weapon by the aptitude weapon enhancement, not the warblade ability.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Mind if I steal this idea? Its pretty cool.

[Eloel]

Go ahead