Stats for Dresden Files characters

[random11]

Harry Dresden

STR - He has some decent fighting skills, but I don't think he is stronger than the average, so somewhere between 9 to 11

INT - He has much knowledge about the arcane, but basically he relies on Bob a lot more than on his own memory or learning ability. The lack of "style" and control over his magic also means that he has low intelligence compared to other wizards, but higher than most other people. I'd say 11-13

WIS - Observant to details others might miss, works as a private detective and has a lot of "street wisdom".
I think his wisdom score is slightly higher than his intelligence, so 12-14.

DEX - Harry takes pride in the fact that he can outrun most people and some supernatural creatures. 15

CON - With all the beating he takes in his adventures, this one must be high even if I don't include the natural ability of wizards to regenerate cells faster and better than other humans. At least 15.

CHA - painful subject. Charisma is definitely his dump stat. He has a knack to gather enemies at alarming speed, annoy even his allies, complete lack of tact especially when he is stressed (which is most of the times). I'd say around 5 or 6.

[BRC]

Harry Dresden

STR - He has some decent fighting skills, but I don't think he is stronger than the average, so somewhere between 9 to 11

INT - He has much knowledge about the arcane, but basically he relies on Bob a lot more than on his own memory or learning ability. The lack of "style" and control over his magic also means that he has low intelligence compared to other wizards, but higher than most other people. I'd say 11-13

WIS - Observant to details others might miss, works as a private detective and has a lot of "street wisdom".
I think his wisdom score is slightly higher than his intelligence, so 12-14.

DEX - Harry takes pride in the fact that he can outrun most people and some supernatural creatures. 15

CON - With all the beating he takes in his adventures, this one must be high even if I don't include the natural ability of wizards to regenerate cells faster and better than other humans. At least 15.

CHA - painful subject. Charisma is definitely his dump stat. He has a knack to gather enemies at alarming speed, annoy even his allies, complete lack of tact especially when he is stressed (which is most of the times). I'd say around 5 or 6.

On the subject of Dex, Harry trains to run, but he's not very Agile. I would give him average dex and the Run feat.

[random11]

On the subject of Dex, Harry trains to run, but he's not very Agile. I would give him average dex and the Run feat.

He learned to pick locks, has a natural fighting skills with a fencing sword almost without practicing, and his reflexes when danger arrives are pretty quick.
Maybe 12-13 with the running feat?

[Temet Nosce]

Harry Dresden

STR - He has some decent fighting skills, but I don't think he is stronger than the average, so somewhere between 9 to 11

INT - He has much knowledge about the arcane, but basically he relies on Bob a lot more than on his own memory or learning ability. The lack of "style" and control over his magic also means that he has low intelligence compared to other wizards, but higher than most other people. I'd say 11-13

WIS - Observant to details others might miss, works as a private detective and has a lot of "street wisdom".
I think his wisdom score is slightly higher than his intelligence, so 12-14.

DEX - Harry takes pride in the fact that he can outrun most people and some supernatural creatures. 15

CON - With all the beating he takes in his adventures, this one must be high even if I don't include the natural ability of wizards to regenerate cells faster and better than other humans. At least 15.

CHA - painful subject. Charisma is definitely his dump stat. He has a knack to gather enemies at alarming speed, annoy even his allies, complete lack of tact especially when he is stressed (which is most of the times). I'd say around 5 or 6.

Well, it's been a bit since I reread the Dresden Files but I'll give you my take on it.

Str: Pretty much right, although I'd say it's more like 10-12 as Harry comes off as physically fit. I doubt it's below 10

Int: I... have no real comment here. Dresden certainly doesn't come off as smart, but really neither do the other wizards. I suppose 10-11 or so. Might be 12.

Wis: I see this as his strongest stat, even above Con. It's the way he deals with most things. Observational skills, paranoia, stubbornness, etc. 17 at a bare minimum, probably 18.

Dex: He comes off as a bit more agile than most, due to all the times he has to dodge stuff, etc. Running doesn't really come into it though. Maybe a 12 or 13.

Con: Solid 16. He gets beat on pretty much constantly, and deals with it.

Cha: He's bad, but I don't think he's quite that bad. I'd say more around a 7-8.

[elliott20]

I don't think Harry Dresden would fit into any D&D class very well, unless you want to go the route of an unoptimized caster.

Let's assume that we are.

I'd say that most of his stats would be in the 12-15 range, with a strong 15 in INT. Being a caster with a high int would cover his intellectual side, and allow him to dabble a little in rogue-ish activities with the extra skill points.

[random11]

Wis: I see this as his strongest stat, even above Con. It's the way he deals with most things. Observational skills, paranoia, stubbornness, etc. 17 at a bare minimum, probably 18.

18 is supposed to be a value that is reserved for the leading people in athletics, world class wrestlers, best thinkers in the world, famous generals etc.
With all the respect for Harry Dresden, he might be better than most people, and in par with leading detectives and agents, but he is not the world's best private eye.
For comparison, I'd give Monk wisdom 18.

I know that in D&D it is common to give 18 for PCs, but I think this tendency also makes us forget what 18 is supposed to represent.

Cha: He's bad, but I don't think he's quite that bad. I'd say more around a 7-8.

9-11 is supposed to be the average.
7-8 is consistent lack of tact and ability to communicate.
For me, it seems that Harry managed to turn "lack of tact" into a form of an art. Maybe not 5, but I wouldn't give him more than 6.

[Temet Nosce]

18 is supposed to be a value that is reserved for the leading people in athletics, world class wrestlers, best thinkers in the world, famous generals etc.
With all the respect for Harry Dresden, he might be better than most people, and in par with leading detectives and agents, but he is not the world's best private eye.
For comparison, I'd give Monk wisdom 18.

I know that in D&D it is common to give 18 for PCs, but I think this tendency also makes us forget what 18 is supposed to represent.

It's not just his skills at detective work I'm talking about. I could be wrong but I seem to recall that whole episode with Lashiel being considered far from the norm. While I haven't read the books in a bit, I think that normally when someone gets one of those coins they succumb regardless. Dresden probably isn't the worlds best investigator, but he's got an enormous amount of willpower, observational skills, and a general unwillingness to budge.

That said, I admit I'm predisposed to consider any protagonist to be "best" at something. So I might be overestimating slightly, but still saying he has even a 16 would imply some of the feats related to willpower he's managed as more common than they're portrayed.

9-11 is supposed to be the average.
7-8 is consistent lack of tact and ability to communicate.
For me, it seems that Harry managed to turn "lack of tact" into a form of an art. Maybe not 5, but I wouldn't give him more than 6.

Where can you find those tables again? I'm pretty sure average is 10-11, although I could be wrong so I'd like to check them but I forget where they're at. I'll get back to you after I take a look, but I think a 5 is somebody who manages to revolt people without even speaking, not just having incredibly bad social skills.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

STR: He's well over 6 feet tall but doesn't use his size much and he's not that strong for his size. A solid 11.

DEX: He's fast and he has good reflexes. He depends on them more than his strength. 13 plus Dodge and Run, maybe improved initiative.

CON: He's survived a crapload of stuff, more than just about any human would expect to. He even says, during his grappling with Nickodemus, that he can take punches with the best of them-and actually does take the punches of a 2000 year old master warrior for minutes after having been in a serious battle. Plus his wizard's constitution and healing. CON 15-16, +2 racial, racial faster healing feat, improved toughness.

INT: Harry is very good in ritual magic (thaumaturgy) and has some skulking skills and serious bluff. He's pulled so many tricks out of his @$$ to beat the bad guys that many supernatural races consider him a major foe despite him being just a thug. He is not really skilled in lore and sorcery though, perhaps due to lack of training or experience-which might mean not enough skill points to cover those areas. I'd give him 15 intelligence.

WIS: He has resisted the lure of two Fae Queens, more than one vampiric succubus and the temptations of a freaking Fallen Angel for years-something no human has EVER done as far as both the church and the Denarians know. His magic is fueled by human will and he's one of the strongest wizards on the planet. He's sniffed out countless nefarious plots and is damn perceptive, especially regarding the motivations of others and the weaknesses of his enemies. And he's so very stubborn that he goes against everyone when he thinks he's right-which is most times. I give him 18 base plus 3 from levels and, for the purposes of his magic and banishing outsiders, a hefty inherent bonus. After all, he is the Chosen One.

CHA: Obviously dump stat. His tendency to cause social disasters have started more than one major conflict and at least one world-spanning all-out war. He has problems speaking to both friends and women, he's a recluse living in a dump of an apartment on his own choice, has serious problems with society and authority (magical or otherwise) and he's so very politically blunt that a sledgehammer pales in comparison. I give him an 8 because in 3.5 you can't get any lower.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Dresden style magic matches much more closely with a World of Darkness style approach then anything in D&D or even d20.

That said I'd wouldn't sell Harry short on Str. He's not described as particularly built, but Harry is also really tall. Size does add something, he's going to be stronger then average. He's probably stronger then he is agile for the same reason, and I don't think we've ever seen Harry be more then a decent shot with a gun. Harry isn't Hendricks/Michael/Murphy never mind *insert list starting with Kincaid and working up* but next to an average person he's still going to excel in every category. Harry just chose the wrong class for athleticism.

On the mental side, Harry's best stat is Wis which is also his casting stat, and this is just where D&D comparisons break down for him being a wizard. Harry clearly has an iron will though. And while clever, Harry isn't particularly scholarly and relies heavily on Bob to do his brainwork for him, so average intelligence there. And Harry clearly operates under a charisma penalty between being a smart-ass and something of a jerk.

Personal Verdict:
Str: 13-14
Dex: 11-12
Con: 16 min (tough bastard)
Int: 10-11
Wis: 16-18
Cha: 8 max (and I'm being generous)

[Belial_the_Leveler]

On the subject of wisdom: he has performed feats of willpower that no mortal has ever done and few non-mortals believed possible. (banished an Outsider at age 15? Resisted a Fallen Angel for years? Kissed a succubus willingly and used the emotions generated to fuel his magic instead of being life-drained and then broke the kiss willingly? Overcame the mental domination of many supernatural enemies?) Said feats even impressed the more badass of the five archangels. That's why I'd give him the highest possible Wisdom for his level.

[random11]

Where can you find those tables again? I'm pretty sure average is 10-11, although I could be wrong so I'd like to check them but I forget where they're at.

I could be wrong about the average.
Maybe I'm mixing it with past editions and maybe even with different games.
But if I'm not mistaken, 3 and 18 are supposed to represent the best and worst of human capabilities. That puts 6 as a very bad score, but far enough from the worst possible person in the world.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I knew someone with charisma of 3.
He was stabbed by a cook once and non of the people who knew him were surprised...

I'll get back to you after I take a look, but I think a 5 is somebody who manages to revolt people without even speaking, not just having incredibly bad social skills.

Which is more or less what Harry does pretty often...
What could have been a simple interrogation turned Bianca into a bitter enemy in less than 5 minutes (I'll avoid spoilers in case you didn't reach this part in the series, but it get's much worse)
The first reaction of the werewolf team was to attack him, again, only after an attempt to gather information.
The only reason Marconi didn't try to kill him (at least not often) is because they use each others talents.
He came into a wizard meeting with a bath robe, let's not mention the vampire masquerade.

This is way below bad social skills.

[Temet Nosce]

I could be wrong about the average.
Maybe I'm mixing it with past editions and maybe even with different games.
But if I'm not mistaken, 3 and 18 are supposed to represent the best and worst of human capabilities. That puts 6 as a very bad score, but far enough from the worst possible person in the world.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I knew someone with charisma of 3.
He was stabbed by a cook once and non of the people who knew him were surprised...

Which is more or less what Harry does pretty often...
What could have been a simple interrogation turned Bianca into a bitter enemy in less than 5 minutes (I'll avoid spoilers in case you didn't reach this part in the series, but it get's much worse)
The first reaction of the werewolf team was to attack him, again, only after an attempt to gather information.
The only reason Marconi didn't try to kill him (at least not often) is because they use each others talents.
He came into a wizard meeting with a bath robe, let's not mention the vampire masquerade.

This is way below bad social skills.

I finally found those tables. Naturally enough they were right in the front of the PHB. Anyways, 10-11 is indeed average.

As far as Harry's Charisma... A 5 would put him on a level with a Dire Rat. Further, Charisma isn't just a social stat it also measures leadership (or as I'm thinking of it how much others are inclined to trust you). True, Harry easily offends people and has difficulty getting trusted, but some people do trust and even occasionally follow him. That argues against a Charisma that low. Yes, he has trouble (such as getting his police friend whose name I forget to trust him) but he's not so far from basic competence that he's completely friendless and incapable of convincing others of anything.

I'd say he probably has an 8, a serious handicap but not to the point that it destroys his personal ability to interact with other people completely (this would be similar to a Gnoll in D&D)

Also, no worries about spoilers I've read Turn Coat.

[random11]

I finally found those tables. Naturally enough they were right in the front of the PHB. Anyways, 10-11 is indeed average.

As far as Harry's Charisma... A 5 would put him on a level with a Dire Rat. Further, Charisma isn't just a social stat it also measures leadership (or as I'm thinking of it how much others are inclined to trust you). True, Harry easily offends people and has difficulty getting trusted, but some people do trust and even occasionally follow him. That argues against a Charisma that low. Yes, he has trouble (such as getting his police friend whose name I forget to trust him) but he's not so far from basic competence that he's completely friendless and incapable of convincing others of anything.

I'd say he probably has an 8, a serious handicap but not to the point that it destroys his personal ability to interact with other people completely (this would be similar to a Gnoll in D&D)

Also, no worries about spoilers I've read Turn Coat.

Is there a table for what the numbers mean without the problematic comparison to other races or to animals?

And I still need to buy and read Turn Coat...

What about the other characters?

Karin Murphy:

Much stronger and faster than the average person, I think she is better than most trained officers.
Hard to judge her int score since usually the information comes from the supernatural characters.
Wise and perceptive, also stubborn just as Harry (if not more), relatively resistant to magic compared to non-wizards.
Annoys her superiors, but it is more the fault of the cases she takes care of than her own social skill.


Str - 13
Int - 10-12?
Wis - 15
Dex - 15
con - 11
cha - 11

[Temet Nosce]

Is there a table for what the numbers mean without the problematic comparison to other races or to animals?

And I still need to buy and read Turn Coat...

What about the other characters?

Karin Murphy:

Much stronger and faster than the average person, I think she is better than most trained officers.
Hard to judge her int score since usually the information comes from the supernatural characters.
Wise and perceptive, also stubborn just as Harry (if not more), relatively resistant to magic compared to non-wizards.
Annoys her superiors, but it is more the fault of the cases she takes care of than her own social skill.


Str - 13
Int - 10-12?
Wis - 15
Dex - 15
con - 11
cha - 11

I'm afraid not, it'd be useful but as far as I know there aren't any tables that just list the relative meaning of each modifier.

As for Karen, it's been long enough I'm unsure. The only part I'd comment on is that I completely disagree with her being as stubborn as Dresden, Harry has accomplished near superhuman tasks of willpower whereas Karen is just a generally cantankerous person.

I'll tell you what, I'm gonna go ahead and reread the entire series while keeping stats in mind. I've been out of books for a while (I just reread Weber's Honor Harrington series for the fifth or sixth time) so I might as well.

Oh, and you should get Turn Coat ASAP. It might not be the best in the series, but it definitely held my interest (enough so that I won't mind rereading it even though I just read it a bit ago).

[Avilan the Grey]

No real comments on the numbers but:

CHA: it is more than he don't give a .....! He not only managed to resist a fallen angel, he is the first person ever to actually redeem a fallen angel! She basically gave her "life" for him at the end, sacrificing herself.

[random11]

As for Karen, it's been long enough I'm unsure. The only part I'd comment on is that I completely disagree with her being as stubborn as Dresden, Harry has accomplished near superhuman tasks of willpower whereas Karen is just a generally cantankerous person.

As I understand, wisdom is a combination of resistance against magic, willpower, perception, and the mental ability to fit pieces together.

Judging only from her detective skills alone, her wisdom score might be even higher than Harry's. Murphy does need Harry for his knowledge, but her ability to understand things without any background in the arcane, and to go against every belief is extremely impressive.

I still think she is just as stubborn as Harry (in the human meaning of the word). She will not give up her friends, ideals, and even simple habits. I think Harry's social skills make his reactions stand out more while Murphy's reaction will seem more quite and calm.

When it comes to magic resistance, I think it is more the effect of class differences that makes Harry better, she is definitely more resistant compared to other humans.


Marconi?

[Temet Nosce]

As I understand, wisdom is a combination of resistance against magic, willpower, perception, and the mental ability to fit pieces together.

Judging only from her detective skills alone, her wisdom score might be even higher than Harry's. Murphy does need Harry for his knowledge, but her ability to understand things without any background in the arcane, and to go against every belief is extremely impressive.

I still think she is just as stubborn as Harry (in the human meaning of the word). She will not give up her friends, ideals, and even simple habits. I think Harry's social skills make his reactions stand out more while Murphy's reaction will seem more quite and calm.

When it comes to magic resistance, I think it is more the effect of class differences that makes Harry better, she is definitely more resistant compared to other humans.


Marconi?

Although Wisdom does provide resistance to mental spells that's more of a "because you're stubborn" thing it has nothing to do with resistance to magic itself as far as I know.

As for her detective skills, I don't really recall any extraordinary examples of that. Although maybe I'll find something while I'm rereading (just started in on Storm Front).

As for stubbornness, I don't see it at all. The mild slightly irritating in people form of insistence to her own habits and trusting herself, but beyond that? Harry has repeatedly accomplished feats that people flat out aren't supposed to be able to do through pure determination. Also, Murphy actually seems to have more annoying habits in her stubbornness than Harry in my opinion, so it actually feels far more grinding to me than Harry's. Harry may very well be one of the most purely stubborn people in that world I suspect, but just is the way he is Murphy might be annoying but I doubt she's more than top 15% stubborn however her stubbornness stands out more (I.E. with her bosses, her insistence on the rightness of her own hypocritical actions, etc). It's more of a personality type thing than an ability.

Like I said, magic resistance isn't really covered by wisdom. Mental resistance yeah, magic resistance no.

Marconi... Hm.

Str: Unsure, can't recall anywhere where this was made clear. Got a guess?

Int: High, he's manipulative and good at it. Really high in fact, he doesn't just manipulate humans but manipulates basically everybody which is evidenced by his positions (Unseelie Accords, baron, etc). He's not world class, but definitely has a major advantage over most characters. 16 maybe.

Wis: Not even close to a match for Harry, but probably a match for Karen. He's stubbornly honorable in some things, and has a penchant for picking up on the unusual. 13 or 14.

Dex: Only thing applicable I can recall here is he can shoot a gun. 10-12

Con: If I recall correctly he's dealt with some fairly serious torture before, and survived well. Somewhere between 12-14. I'd probably tend towards 14.

Cha: Good at what he does, he doesn't come across as magnetic but manages to appear as he wishes I think. 12-14 again.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

@Marcone;
He's fast enough to dodge Nickademus when surprised and attacked from behind, he can do insane acrobatic stunts and he's deadly with a gun-though not as much as Kinkaid. I think his dexterity is at the upper limits of human (17-18)
He's a very great underworld leader, is really good at diplomacy/bluff and even manages to cooperate with the police and supernatural forces. Charisma is pretty high, too.

[random11]

Marcone is not easy to stat.

Most of his wis/int actions are behind the scenes, so it's hard to say how much is really him, and how much does he rely on other people in his organization.
I'm guessing 10+ for both, but I can't see a way to judge how much more.

He needs to have decent charisma to hold such a big organization and have connections on both sides of the law.
Still, it's hard to say how much is really his charisma and how much of it is threats, money and power.
You don't need high charisma to bribe someone when you are filthy rich...

In the two or three times that we saw him in action, he had good reflexes.
He DID withstand torture, but I'm not sure if it counts since as far as I remember, the enemy didn't actually want anything out of him except suffering while staying alive.
Still, by the way he is described my guess would be higher than average, but it's hard to say by how much.

Bottom line, all I have for him is the minimal values for his attributes.
Maybe it will be clearer in future books

STR - 12+
INT - 10+
WIS - 10+
DEX - 12+
CON - 11+
CHA - 13+

Next, Michael?

[Saph]

Well, Michael's pretty much a straight-up D&D Paladin, which makes it easier. :P

Strength: 15-16. He's not described as being massively muscular, but he fights with a sword and he's in top physical condition.
Dexterity: 10-11. Seems average, I don't remember him being particularly clumsy or nimble.
Constitution: 14 or so. He doesn't go down easily.
Intelligence: 10-11 . . . again, seems average.
Wisdom: 15-16. Extremely calm and balanced, highly resistant to enemy magic (though some of that is probably his blessed status). But he has pretty much all the characteristics of a high-Wisdom cleric.
Charisma: 17 or so. I'm assuming this is what his "paladin-ish" abilities play off. Either way, he has a lot of force of personality, and always seems to be an attention magnet. (Harry does the same, but while Michael seems to command respect from just about everyone, Harry draws attention by being incredibly good at irritating people.)

[Avilan the Grey]

OKay... Personal oppinion:

Harry:
STR - 12+
INT - 14+
WIS - 10+
DEX - 10+
CON - 16+
CHA - 16+

It should be noted that I consider him much more intelligent than most people here, it seems; and definitely more intelligent than wise. On the other hand the D&D stats are very difficult to give to a character like this without having to resort to "16+ all over".

I think it is also clear that there are a number of "homebrew" feats that should be used here.

Murphy:
STR - 12+
INT - 12+
WIS - 10+
DEX - 14+
CON - 16+
CHA - 12+

Marcone:
STR - 10+
INT - 14+
WIS - 12+
DEX - 16+
CON - 10+
CHA - 16+

Michael:
STR - 14+
INT - 10+
WIS - 14+
DEX - 10+
CON - 16+
CHA - 16+

Charity:
STR - 16+
INT - 12+
WIS - 10+
DEX - 10+
CON - 14+
CHA - 12+

Charity is probably stronger than Michael, but has less combat training.

[Temet Nosce]

@Marcone;
He's fast enough to dodge Nickademus when surprised and attacked from behind, he can do insane acrobatic stunts and he's deadly with a gun-though not as much as Kinkaid. I think his dexterity is at the upper limits of human (17-18)
He's a very great underworld leader, is really good at diplomacy/bluff and even manages to cooperate with the police and supernatural forces. Charisma is pretty high, too.

Hrm... I don't recall that specific instance, but will check it out as I reread. I do think Kincaid would interesting to stat, but incredibly difficult. He'd have scores in the 20s in some things, since he's clearly above human in multiple areas.

As for Charisma though, Marcone doesn't really do it in the traditional way... so it's hard to say precisely how Charismatic he is.

Marcone is not easy to stat.

Most of his wis/int actions are behind the scenes, so it's hard to say how much is really him, and how much does he rely on other people in his organization.
I'm guessing 10+ for both, but I can't see a way to judge how much more.

He needs to have decent charisma to hold such a big organization and have connections on both sides of the law.
Still, it's hard to say how much is really his charisma and how much of it is threats, money and power.
You don't need high charisma to bribe someone when you are filthy rich...

In the two or three times that we saw him in action, he had good reflexes.
He DID withstand torture, but I'm not sure if it counts since as far as I remember, the enemy didn't actually want anything out of him except suffering while staying alive.
Still, by the way he is described my guess would be higher than average, but it's hard to say by how much.

Bottom line, all I have for him is the minimal values for his attributes.
Maybe it will be clearer in future books

STR - 12+
INT - 10+
WIS - 10+
DEX - 12+
CON - 11+
CHA - 13+

Next, Michael?

I don't know, even in the first book Marcone makes his intelligence and wisdom clear pretty quickly. Almost as soon as he meets Dresden he tricks him at his own game when Dresden tries to get a look inside him.

As far as Charisma, yeah I kinda agree... Still, he certainly does come across as at least having an above average Charisma. Not world record level, but he manages to project what he wants.

Honestly, Marcone while somewhat hard to judge is still in my opinion clearer as a character than say, Karen (who while she's around more often seems to generic to stand out over much, Marcone by comparison has a relatively well defined character... however Karen is rather average so it's still a bit easier to stat her).

Anyways, currently I'd lean towards this for Marcone -

Str: 12 (In the first book he's described as being in good shape and resembling a sports coach physically)
Int: 17 (He may actually be even more manipulative than I thought)
Wis: 15 (he's definitely observant and intuitive as hell, if not quite as stubborn as Harry)
Dex: 14 (Yeah, he's a bit better than I thought here, but I still can't recall the specifics of what Belial referred to... I may amend this later)
Con: 14 (pretty much what I said before)
Cha: 14 (he's not charismatic in the traditional sense but he has a perfect grasp on how others perceive him)

Well, Michael's pretty much a straight-up D&D Paladin, which makes it easier. :P

Strength: 15-16. He's not described as being massively muscular, but he fights with a sword and he's in top physical condition.
Dexterity: 10-11. Seems average, I don't remember him being particularly clumsy or nimble.
Constitution: 14 or so. He doesn't go down easily.
Intelligence: 10-11 . . . again, seems average.
Wisdom: 15-16. Extremely calm and balanced, highly resistant to enemy magic (though some of that is probably his blessed status). But he has pretty much all the characteristics of a high-Wisdom cleric.
Charisma: 17 or so. I'm assuming this is what his "paladin-ish" abilities play off. Either way, he has a lot of force of personality, and always seems to be an attention magnet. (Harry does the same, but while Michael seems to command respect from just about everyone, Harry draws attention by being incredibly good at irritating people.)

I honestly disagree on a couple points, I'm not really considering classes but attribute wise that doesn't seem like Michael to me. Where I disagree is mostly Wisdom, and Charisma. As far as Wisdom, the only attribute associated with it he really shows personally is devotion (he does predict things, etc but that's not because he knows them but because he just trusts things will turn out all right, and due to his powers they usually do), similarly speaking while he does command respect it's more of his job than he himself and he doesn't show any other signs of a high Charisma. I'd probably peg him at 8 Wis (even with the devotion, I suspect his reliance on metaphysical assistance has atrophied this stat... although he does display occasional common sense such as when he decides to stop being a knight) and 10 Cha (he doesn't strike me one way or the other here).

[AstralFire]

In general, I think it'd be better give Harry Dresden a high charisma (due to high sense of self), and penalties to dealing with people. Charisma just makes so much more sense as meriting a stat when it's focused on the 'sense of self' part.

[Saph]

In general, I think it'd be better give Harry Dresden a high charisma (due to high sense of self), and penalties to dealing with people. Charisma just makes so much more sense as meriting a stat when it's focused on the 'sense of self' part.

Charisma's not exactly sense of self, though . . . that's more Wisdom, if we're talking the ability to remain focused, resist mental influence, etc. Charisma's more force of personality and the ability to get people to like you/do what you want.

And Harry does need something to represent how spectacularly good he is at pissing people off. :P I don't think there's been a single book where he hasn't managed to annoy at least three separate creatures into trying to kill him.

[Hadessniper]

I see charisma as the ability for your personality to fill a room, or to command notice, Harry definitely does that. While he does have a lack of tact, that stems more from his stubborn attitude and inability to ignore injustice, then a lack of personality.

1) He has a strong personality
2) He has shown an ability to bluff
3) He is an effective leader when he wants to be
3) He commands a great trust from his allies
4) He can be VERY intimidating
5) He is good with animals
6) He is of average or higher physical attractiveness
7) Just about everyone has some interest in him
8) When he has an opinion on a subject you damn well know what it is

As contrast I would give some one like butters who blends into the background. People just tend not to pay attention to him.

I think a lot of people mistake Harry's unwillingness to play ball with anyone he thinks is in the wrong as a lack of charisma. I would give him a 13-14 possibly a 15.

[random11]

I see charisma as the ability for your personality to fill a room, or to command notice, Harry definitely does that. While he does have a lack of tact, that stems more from his stubborn attitude and inability to ignore injustice, then a lack of personality.

1) He has a strong personality
2) He has shown an ability to bluff
3) He is an effective leader when he wants to be
3) He commands a great trust from his allies
4) He can be VERY intimidating
5) He is good with animals
6) He is of average or higher physical attractiveness
7) Just about everyone has some interest in him
8) When he has an opinion on a subject you damn well know what it is

As contrast I would give some one like butters who blends into the background. People just tend not to pay attention to him.

I think a lot of people mistake Harry's unwillingness to play ball with anyone he thinks is in the wrong as a lack of charisma. I would give him a 13-14 possibly a 15.

As for your points, I agree that the rules of D&D make it hard by describing a character only by six numbers, but things like feats and skills help to balance things up.
From what happens to Harry during his adventures, it is more likely that he has low charisma with some relevant feats than high charisma.

1) Like someone else already mentioned, strong personality comes from wisdom (which also indicates will power), while charisma is the ability to persuade others.

2) You don't need a lot of charisma to bluff when you already have a justified reputation of a wizard with a tendency to burn and destroy buildings.
Same goes for trying to intimidate.

3) I don't think he is a great leader.
He has good, solid and insane strategies, but non of them realy require active leadership.

4) Notice the difference between the people who like him and the people who hate him.
He inspired hate after a 5 minute conversation at least three times (probably more)
Allies on the other hand, are only people that actually know that he saved their lives and can be trusted. Until he actually proves it by his action, the first reaction is mistrust, suspicion or hate.
That by itself sort of justifies low charisma.

5) I don't see how good with animals effect things. But even if it does, there is only the cat he had for years, and a magical dog who is much smarter than an animal.

6) That's mostly because he is the main character, but notice how often and how quickly he manages to ruin first reaction based on his appearance with his actions.

7) They have interest with him, but in most cases it's negative. Average charisma is someone who is ignored, low charisma is instant hate.

8) Yes, but how many characters are persuaded by his stubbornness? Being blunt without tact means low, not high charisma.

[Curmudgeon]

Harry Dresden

STR - He has some decent fighting skills, but I don't think he is stronger than the average, so somewhere between 9 to 11

That's too low. He's of average strength -- for a very big guy. Dresden is about 6' 7" tall, and solidly built. That puts his STR in the 13-15 range.

[Raum]

I'm some what surprised by how low a lot of the stats being batted around are...particularly Charisma. Seriously. He talks enemies into doing things his way several times. He's respected even by his enemies. And, in the later books, he's definitely a leader. Sure he's stubborn and often blunt, but those aren't exactly signs of a weak personality. Tactlessness just means his Diplomacy skill may be low.

As for intelligence, he generally wins by outsmarting his foes. He's also labeled a prodigy - very young for his power. He picks up new spells in minutes or hours, even complex thaumaturgies required to explode someone's heart from a distance.

Physically, he's fought and survived everything from werewolves and vampires to resurrected dinosaurs. Not exactly going to be either week or clumsy.

I do wish Evil Hat would hurry up and publish the game...it looks interesting! :)

[Saph]

I'm some what surprised by how low a lot of the stats being batted around are...particularly Charisma. Seriously. He talks enemies into doing things his way several times. He's respected even by his enemies.

Yeah, but a good half of those enemies only became enemies after spending five minutes in the same room with him.

Harry's respected, yes, but he's respected because just about every enemy who's made the mistake of not respecting him is now dead due to Harry having killed them. It's not due to his personality.

[Raum]

Perhaps...but avoiding making enemies is diplomacy not charisma. In fact, I'd say his charisma must be fairly high just to irritate people so quickly. Low charisma means you get ignored a lot, it doesn't mean people dislike you.