DnD 3.5 Rope of Ogre Size

[powerdemon]

I wanted to know if you guys think the cost on this custom belt seems appropriate.

Rope of Ogre Size
This belt doesn't look at all magical to the untrained eye. It appears to just be a rough hemp rope with a belt buckle except that it is much heavier than it looks like it should. When donned by a small or medium creature the wearer grows one size larger as the spell Enlarge Person. This item has no effect on a creature that is Large or larger, or tiny or smaller.

CL 3th; Craft Wondrous Item, Enlarge Person; Price 4,500gp; Weight 5 lb.

[Yora]

It works essentially the same as a hat of disguise, just with enlarge person instead of disguise self as the spell.

Hat of Disguise: This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, and so on.

So by the official rules for magic item creation, it would be:

Faint transmutation; CL 1st; Craft Wondrous Item, enlarge person; Price 1,800 gp.

For a small character, the benefits and penalties are equal, with no total gain. As a medium character, you gain reach, which may be a bit cheesy für a 1,800 gm item.

[Eloel]

Enlarge Person is 1 min/level, Disguise Self is 10 min/level - it should cost more. (similar argument with True Strike...)

So by the official rules for magic item creation, it would be:

Use-activated or continuous Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp

# If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

1*1*2000*2 = 4000

It should really be higher, but that seems to be the cost (that still is an advice, and you have to go to DM for it's price)

[powerdemon]

It works essentially the same as a hat of disguise, just with enlarge person instead of disguise self as the spell.



So by the official rules for magic item creation, it would be:

Well if I use the straight formula from the SRD: Spell level × caster level × 2,000gp (Then x2 because the spell is measured in minutes) would be 4000gp. This seems too low for how powerful this item could be.

[Fax Celestis]

Well if I use the straight formula from the SRD: Spell level × caster level × 2,000gp (Then x2 because the spell is measured in minutes) would be 4000gp. This seems too low for how powerful this item could be.

Not really. Consider that a large character takes a penalty to AC, to to-hit, and has to squeeze through certain areas. You're also a bigger target, are easier to flank, and if you use a reach weapon, have a big pocket of unthreatened space directly around you.

[Eloel]

Well if I use the straight formula from the SRD: Spell level × caster level × 2,000gp (Then x2 because the spell is measured in minutes) would be 4000gp. This seems too low for how powerful this item could be.

A permanency'd one could be bought for;
1x10 + 9x50 + 5x500 = 2960 gold.
It'd be an easy subject to dispelling with permanency, so you need to ad-hoc a cost for non-dispelability.

[Sallera]

You could also compare it to the Ring of Reduction, which is 20000. Given that your version is limited to medium or smaller humanoids, the original cost doesn't sound too far off.

[Yora]

I'd say 4000 gp is reasonable.

But you can break the additional reach if you play at higher levels with lots of optimization. But for "normal games" with "normal players" and characters, it should be fine.

[powerdemon]

What do you think about 4,500gp as the cost? It's high enough to not make me feel guilty, and to consider the non-dispelability.

[Fax Celestis]

A permanency'd one could be bought for;
1x10 + 9x50 + 5x500 = 2960 gold.
It'd be an easy subject to dispelling with permanency, so you need to ad-hoc a cost for non-dispelability.

Magic items can be 'turned off' with a dispel magic, so it's not immune to dispelling.

[powerdemon]

Magic items can be 'turned off' with a dispel magic, so it's not immune to dispelling.

But a dispelled item will eventually turn back on, but a permanency spell goes away altogether right?

[Eloel]

Magic items can be 'turned off' with a dispel magic, so it's not immune to dispelling.

Turned off for 1d4 rounds != Gone forever

[Starbuck_II]

Objection!
Disjunction begs to differ.

[Cieyrin]

Also consider this will work on non-humanoids, so a Goliath or Half-Giant can run around as large creatures with Huge creature bonuses and weapons.

The magic item formula puts it at 4000 gp, which is the same level as +2 enhancement items. Enlarge gets you +2 Str, -2 Dex, -1 Atk & AC, reach and +4 to most opposed combat actions. Seems to me that would warrant a price increase, especially since this will stack with Gauntlets of Ogre Power, since Enlarge provides a size bonus to Strength, not an enhancement bonus. I'd put it up around 5000-6000 gp, at least.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

EDIT:

Objection!
Disjunction begs to differ.

Disjunction is so far away at the point when you get one of these that I think it's rather a moot point. If wizards are gonna throw around Disjunctions, they probably got more expensive items to ruin than a belt that makes him bigger, like the armor he's wearing.

[Fax Celestis]

Turned off for 1d4 rounds != Gone forever

Your point being? He could instead drop that 4k on potions of enlarge person--80 of them, in fact, for one-minute duration potions--and do exactly the same thing as he would with a permanent belt. He could spend a fraction of that gold on a wand of enlarge person (fifty uses for 750 gp! A steal!) and get exactly the same effect. He could get a wizard friend to give him a heartening tap on the shoulder at the start of every battle and get exactly the same effect for free.

[Sallera]

Well, almost exactly the same effect, since the item, being a permanent effect, doesn't require you to waste an action activating it. If you are going to allow it to affect non-humanoids, though, you may want to follow the Ring of Reduction's example. Maybe halve the cost for 10k, since being larger has more disadvantages than being smaller.

[Starbuck_II]

Disjunction is so far away at the point when you get one of these that I think it's rather a moot point. If wizards are gonna throw around Disjunctions, they probably got more expensive items to ruin than a belt that makes him bigger, like the armor he's wearing.

There are CR 11 monsters can use it at will.
So CR 6-7 would be 1/dayusing monsters in theory.

[J.Gellert]

I know I wouldn't fork 4k for this. Enlarge Person is already a debuff. If my wizard ally tells me he wants to cast it on me, I'll say "No, thank you, just cast magic missile already".

Long explanation: The penalties to AC hurt, especially against DMs who don't pull their punches. Sometimes you can be a frontliner that hits things, but more often you need to also be able to take hits yourself. As a fighter, you don't gang up on the monsters, they gang up on you.

Longer explanation: If you want to break stuff by using reach, be smart and use a reach weapon (googling makes me think that spiked chains are a d&d invention and who would be stupid enough to create a chain with spikes in the real world? No matter, it's there to be used). If this really is about higher levels of play, and obscure optimization, the cost doesn't matter because you can get far worse things by that point.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, almost exactly the same effect, since the item, being a permanent effect, doesn't require you to waste an action activating it.

Fair enough. It's still not that big a deal.

If you are going to allow it to affect non-humanoids, though, you may want to follow the Ring of Reduction's example. Maybe halve the cost for 10k, since being larger has more disadvantages than being smaller.

Actually, since the listed effect is "as the spell enlarge person", it doesn't affect non-humanoid creatures at all. Which means it won't affect half-giants (as they're Giant type) or goliaths (as they're Monstrous Humanoids). And since the item explicitly doesn't affect anyone size Large or larger, it's incredibly limited in terms of "lol i r colozal" size jockeying cheese.

[PinkysBrain]

I think the CL should be higher to start with since this is an always-on item and being large really benefits some characters.

The CL entry for items is not a prerequisite, it's simply the default CL for items found. The actual CL is determined by the item creator. If you want to make CL a prerequisite you have to add something like "caster must be at least 11th level" to the item prerequisites (like for instance Golems have). This is the exception, not the rule, though. Since the prerequisites are low level the default CL is not out of place, the price is high but generally these kind of items are commissioned.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with the guideline price, 4000 gp (but I do think players should have a limit on the total number of continuous spell effects they can have on themselves).

[Draz74]

There are CR 11 monsters can use it at will.

Wait. Aren't these considered to be among the Top 5 Under-CR'ed Monsters Of All Time? Possibly even #1, surpassing That Damn Crab and the Planetar?

[PinkysBrain]

Casters get metamagic rods ... don't begrudge a meleer a bloody enlarge person which is halfways affordable, this is so incredibly far removed from broken.

At 13k5 I wouldn't even buy this thing ... I'd rather set the money aside for a Skin of Proteus (<- now that's broken).

[deuxhero]

Hmm, what is the spell level of the Giant Size spell?

[Eldariel]

Hmm, what is the spell level of the Giant Size spell?

7 (Wu Jen); realistically, 9 [Miracle, Cleric]

[powerdemon]

At 13k5 I wouldn't even buy this thing ... I'd rather set the money aside for a Skin of Proteus (<- now that's broken).

What do you think of 4,500gp?


By the way, thanks for all the great input. It's good to bounce around ideas .

[PinkysBrain]

Decent price ... as long as the abilities of a Belt of Giant Strength can be added to it in the future. Making say a melee character chose between a belt of giant strength or his enlarge person belt would be cruel.

[powerdemon]

Decent price ... as long as the abilities of a Belt of Giant Strength can be added to it in the future. Making say a melee character chose between a belt of giant strength or his enlarge person belt would be cruel.

Well for 1.5x cost you can have them on the same belt :P.

[PinkysBrain]

Usually only the cheapest part gets multiplied by 1.5.

[Starbuck_II]

Wait. Aren't these considered to be among the Top 5 Under-CR'ed Monsters Of All Time? Possibly even #1, surpassing That Damn Crab and the Planetar?

I just said it can happen not that CR is ever done right.

[powerdemon]

Usually only the cheapest part gets multiplied by 1.5.

It's whatever is the second part that is added. So if you want it to be cheaper, you get the most expensive part first.