Blocking disjunction

[quick_comment]

Would wings of cover protect you from disjunction?

[Sinfire Titan]

Would wings of cover protect you from disjunction?

It blocks LoE entirely. MDJ would hit the spell, and only that spell's effect would be negated (seeing as MDJ doesn't continue past a blocked LoE and has a duration of Instantaneous).

[Belial_the_Leveler]

No, it doesn't block. Wings of cover only block LoE for single-target spells. Against area spells, they merely give a cover bonus to reflex saves-which does not hinder the Disjunction at all.

[Cyclocone]

No, MDJ is a Burst, so LoE does stop it.
It wouldn't stop Fireball, since it is a Spread.

[Longcat]

The only spells known to block Disjunction would be Antimagic field and Esoteric Aegis.

[Myou]

The only spells known to block Disjunction would be Antimagic field and Esoteric Aegis.

And now Wings of Cover. Specific trumps general.

Where is Esoteric Aegis from ayway?

[Bayar]

Reason to play a sorcerer with Disjunction learned.

[Longcat]

And now Wings of Cover. Specific trumps general.

Well, it's debateable whether Wings of Cover block out an area effect.

Where is Esoteric Aegis from anyways?

It's an epic spell. I've seen it used somewhere on the Dicefreaks boards, but I'm not sure where it's from. Basically, it adds +20 to the DC for the purpose of dispelling your spells, and makes you immune to Disjunction.

[Eldariel]

It's an epic spell. I've seen it used somewhere on the Dicefreaks boards, but I'm not sure where it's from. Basically, it adds +20 to the DC for the purpose of dispelling your spells, and makes you immune to Disjunction.

Sounds like a custom epic spell. It shouldn't even require much mitigation. Much cheaper than the "Be Immune To All Level 9 And Under Spells" Ward which is also perfectly doable with exactly 0 assistant casters.

[Milskidasith]

Yeah, but you need to dismiss and recast that ward just to keep your buffs up (or just make all the normal buffs into epic buffs and cast them.)

It's much easier just to create a specific epic ward against disjunction, AMF, and anything that can really harm you.

[Myou]

Well, it's debateable whether Wings of Cover block out an area effect.

Disjunction is a burst. A I understand it, Wings of Cover blocks bursts.

It's an epic spell. I've seen it used somewhere on the Dicefreaks boards, but I'm not sure where it's from. Basically, it adds +20 to the DC for the purpose of dispelling your spells, and makes you immune to Disjunction.

Ah, so it doesn't exist.

[Longcat]

Disjunction is a burst. A I understand it, Wings of Cover blocks bursts.

Actually, it only blocks LoE to single target attacks or attack spells. Against any area effects, it simply grants a bonus on AC and reflex saves. Furthermore, it's debateable whether Disjunction counts as an attack spell or not.

[Myou]

Actually, it only blocks LoE to single target attacks or attack spells. Against any area effects, it simply grants a bonus on AC and reflex saves. Furthermore, it's debateable whether Disjunction counts as an attack spell or not.

All spells cast by an enemy to effect you are attacks.

WoC blocks LoE, thus is blocks bursts.

[Longcat]

WoC blocks LoE, thus is blocks bursts.

According to RAW, it only blocks LoE against single target spells or attacks. Area effects aren't single target.

[Myou]

According to RAW, it only blocks LoE against single target spells or attacks. Area effects aren't single target.

Burst != Area

[Tshern]

The various Resilient sphere's you can center on yourself block MDJ as well.

[Kelpstrand]

According to RAW, it only blocks LoE against single target spells or attacks. Area effects aren't single target.

No, according to RAW it grants you total cover against any spell or attack, and Total Cover blocks line of effect.

This means that no spell can target you that requires line of effect, such as all bursts.

One the other hand, if an area spell does not require line of effect, it grants the total cover bonus to saving throws or AC.

[Surgo]

I believe Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil can block a disjunction as well. Hurray! (Not a spell however.)

[Tshern]

I believe Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil can block a disjunction as well. Hurray! (Not a spell however.)

The same way you could avoid Disjunction with Contingencies and different forms of immediate action counterspelling. There certainly are ways to avoid it. Anima Mage, too, gets a way to avoid it. Too bad being flat-footed prevents you from taking immediate actions. Luckily Anima Mages with 9th level spells ought to have Foresight persisted anyway.

[Cyclocone]

According to RAW, it only blocks LoE against single target spells or attacks. Area effects aren't single target.

Actually it grants you cover against any *single* attack, i.e. stops a charge, but not a full attack etc.

IIRC, the spell description says something like:

Your evoked wings grants you cover against a specific attack

[Longcat]

No, according to RAW it grants you total cover against any spell or attack, and Total Cover blocks line of effect.

The wings of force last
just long enough to disrupt your foe’s
line of effect to you, providing you
total cover against a single attack with
a weapon, spell, or psionic power.

Emphasis mine.

Your foe could choose to attack
the area in which you have taken
cover with an area attack (such as a
fireball spell). In this case, you gain a
+8 bonus to AC (if applicable) and a
+4 bonus on Refl ex saves.

The question is, does Disjunction count as an area attack? I'm inclined to say yes, but feel free to point a rules reference that proves the contrary.

[Bayar]

Actually it grants you cover against any *single* attack, i.e. stops a charge, but not a full attack etc.

IIRC, the spell description says something like:

A sword attack is a specific attack. It grants you cover against a sword attack, ergo it grants cover a sword full attack. Or so I read it.

[Temet Nosce]

The question is, does Disjunction count as an area attack? I'm inclined to say yes, but feel free to point a rules reference that proves the contrary.

That's... not what it says though. It says your foe could choose to attack the area you're in. Disjunction doesn't target an area, it's a burst that effects "all magical effects and magic items within a 40 ft. -radius burst"

It doesn't target the area, but magical effects and items inside of the burst.

Also, I just noticed the section of Wings of Cover which mentions this specifically says "the area in which you have taken cover", cover is specifically there but an attack against the area (such as a fireball spell, which spreads around cover) occurs you receive the AC and reflex bonuses.

[Lysander]

Here's how I interpret it. Disjunction can't work on a target behind total cover. So a brick wall could stop it. However Wings of Cover themselves are magical evoked force. So the burst disjuncts them, and then disjuncts you. Cover can only protect you from disjunction if the cover itself is immune to disjunction.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

C'mon people. It says:

Area: All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst

So it's an area attack. It doesn't even have a "target" line so even if you wanted to target it for some reason, you could not do it.

[Sinfire Titan]

Here's how I interpret it. Disjunction can't work on a target behind total cover. So a brick wall could stop it. However Wings of Cover themselves are magical evoked force. So the burst disjuncts them, and then disjuncts you. Cover can only protect you from disjunction if the cover itself is immune to disjunction.

MDJ doesn't work in sequence, it works simultaneously. If an object isn't affected due to another spell's ability, and that spell is dispelled when MDJ hits it, the object is unaffected because MDJ has all ready resolved.


In other words, it says Duration: Instantaneous for a reason.

[Surgo]

Target line or not, it says it's a burst -- which does not work against someone with total cover. Which Wings of Cover provide.

[Random832]

Area: All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.

The defense rests.

[Optimystik]

The question is, does Disjunction count as an area attack? I'm inclined to say yes, but feel free to point a rules reference that proves the contrary.

It is, but it's a burst, not a spread as others have mentioned.

Burst, Emanation, or Spread
Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.

So it is an area attack, but gets blocked by wings of cover as noted. A cone attack is also an area attack, but would also be blocked.

You can also protect adjacent allies as you get higher in levels. Very nice!

[Lysander]

All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined.

Wings of Cover is a magical effect. Therefore it is disjoined.

MDJ doesn't work in sequence, it works simultaneously. If an object isn't affected due to another spell's ability, and that spell is dispelled when MDJ hits it, the object is unaffected because MDJ has all ready resolved.


In other words, it says Duration: Instantaneous for a reason.

Take an anti-magic field as a precedent. If an anti-magic field is disjoined anything inside the field is also disjoined. Therefore if wings of cover are disjoined anything they protected should also be disjoined.

Duration Instantaneous doesn't mean no time passes whatsoever, it just means there's no ongoing duration. Fireball is an instantaneous spell, but there still is that brief period of time where you fire the bead, it streaks towards the target, and then explodes.

Also, disjunction doesn't stop at the first target in a line. If you line up ten magic items in a single file, stand at the head of the line and cast disjunction, the mdj doesn't stop with the first item. It goes through and disjuncts each item. If it can go through magic items or people to disjunct what's behind them, it could also disjunct it's way through a spell.