[D&D 3.5] My players want to rob a House Kundarak bank...

[Jalor]

Okay, so my Planescape players decided standard WBL isn't enough for them. Today, they came to me and asked if there are banks on the Material Plane. I informed them that, yes, House Kundarak of Eberron maintains a bank system. They are now planning a heist. Here's the party, all 13th level and gestalt:

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-A Half-Dragon Bariaur Telepath 13//Dragon Shaman 10. I waived the Bariaur's LA because it sucks otherwise, and took a point off the Half-Dragon's LA. He's our resident Dice God and has crazy-ass stats; none rolled under 14, and racial mods put the important ones above 20. Being part Amethyst Dragon, part man, part ram, and having bits of gold scales makes him look odd even by Planescape standards. He's technically a BSF, because he hits things while taking hits. He likes to manifest Schism, then full attack while using save-or-dies on priority targets. Currently one evil act away from losing his Dragon Shaman abilities. Probably not going to participate in the robbery.

-A Changeling Beguiler 13//Scout 10/Gatecrasher 3. He alternates between being James Bond and being Jar Jar Binks. He Beguiles things with charms and illusions, and failing that he shoots them in the face after moving ten feet. When he gets bored, he uses his Rod of Wonder. The Rod has actually saved the party twice so far. He took Leadership and has a Blue Slaad cohort (I chopped its LA down to make it good).

-A Mind Flayer Wizard 13/Mind Flayer 13. He saw Savage Species and begged to use its Mind Flayer progression. He's a generalist, and neither Batman nor a blaster. His favorite spells are Disintegrate and Black Tentacles, but he makes the same mistake everyone does with their first Wizard and prepares the good combat spells in almost every single spell slot. Probably better off as a Sorcerer. He took Undead Leadership and has a Mummified Thri-Kreen (nonpsionic) with a couple levels of Cleric for the self-buffing ability.

I'm not a fan of Eberron (except for Artificer and Windwright Captain) and really only know it in passing, so I'm not sure how to design this scenario. I don't know exactly how Kundarak protects their vaults, and I want to make things very, very difficult for them. Anyone have ideas?

[kwanzaabot]

I don't really know Eberron that well either, but I suggest you look at movies that deal with heists. Oceans 11/12/13 comes to mind.

Also, what if the bank is guarded by some kind of Dragon? Dragons know their treasure, so I think if I had a bank account, having it guarded by such a badass expert would be most reassuring.
Plus, the final Harry Potter book has a bank heist with a Dragon, and it's my favorite scene in the whole series. :D

[Mongoose87]

It's not really practical to guard a bank on Eberron with a dragon, as they're much rarer in that setting.

[chiasaur11]

Well, Eberon tends to be lowish level in general.

Being above level ten means your guys should be movers and shakers.

Which means robbing the bank may not be quite impossible.

[kwanzaabot]

It's not really practical to guard a bank on Eberron with a dragon, as they're much rarer in that setting.

Oh, yeah. I remember that now.

But they do have that whole continent they live on, but what about Steel Dragons? They live in cities, don't they? It wouldn't be too unrealistic to have one or two outside of... is it Argonnessen?

Just because they're rare doesn't mean there aren't any at all.

[Jalor]

Being above level ten means your guys should be movers and shakers.

Just because they're rare doesn't mean there aren't any at all.

Seems to be the logical conclusion there.

I am upping the average power level by a couple of levels, because Planescape in general is pretty high-powered.

[Jeramiahh]

If Dungeons and Dragons online has taught me anything, the Eberronians LOVE traps. I would highly recommend having the vault secured by the most complex, difficult, and asinine series of traps you can possible imagine. and make the method of disabling them obscure and require a complex series of actions, by multiple people, with the correct keys/passcodes/hand motions, in multiple places, at once.

Nothing impossible for high level characters, of course, but this should be something that takes a lot of effort, planning, and maybe a little luck.

[Jalor]

...doors locked by colored objects, doors that cannot be opened and lead nowhere, doors that are unlocked only by pressure plates...

...traps ripped from Nintendo Hard games like Battletoads, mazes of twisty little passages, all alike. I'm going to enjoy this.

How is a typical Kundarak bank laid out?

[PinkysBrain]

They are not robbing a bank, they are robbing Fort Knox. Their vaults centralize the wealth of an entire continent ... this isn't millions we're talking about, this is billions.

We are talking forbiddance effects all over the place, surrounded on all sides by lead plating protected on all sides by guards with see invisibility and some people with true seeing for good measure, guards on dire bats and patrolling earth elementals (probably lots of archers with true strike items too). We are talking about teams of casters casting divination every day to find a hint of a chance of trouble in the next week (even if you allow mind blank to protect against that they still have to have it all on for a week). That's not even getting into the high level NPCs who they have on retainer and are only a sending and a couple of rounds away (high being ~12, but that's still high enough to be scary).

No, just no.

Well, maybe with inside help. They at least need someone who tells them when their non detections failed to protect them this week (caster level checks, I don't see them being able to get mind blank at level 13). Someone to tell them the guard patrol patterns, which vault they can rob quickly enough without being discovered.

Someone to double cross them, try to make off with all the loot (this might fail, but funny if it works) and who conveniently left some minor personal items of them at the scene of the crime so House Kundarak can send assassins after them :) (Say a Retriever and a team of Zelekhut's.)

They will have to information gather first anyway. The inside man can be a changeling NPC who happens to find out they are sniffing around for information. With some prestige class with which he can avoid discern lies and such (although he would only tell them that if they are smart enough to ask him how he can avoid "lie detector tests" at the bank).

Or you can change some of the Eberron fluff and remove the interdimensional access to the vaults so you don't have these huge centralized vaults and you have a more realistic sized bank with security measures a little easier assailable.

[VirOath]

Ahhh, DDO. The fun, the times, the good stuff. If you need a fun primer to Eb, that's a good spot to start.

And yes, they love traps. Not only that, but you are talking about the Ward House. Their dragon Mark deals with Wards, their main income is Protection, and they are Dwarves.

If you are in dire need of a quick primer on what to do in design, I bring you The Personally Owned Ant Farm That Can Destroy The World! *Ahem* Dwarf Fortress Trap Design

But yes, overly complex systems that protect the goods, guards that will consistently fight them with the goal of protecting the goods (Rather than killing or taking them down) and in a half labyrinth designed around that very purpose. But, know one thing.

There are two ways for the players to go at this. A well executed plan that goes off without a hitch at all the right spots, allowing complete access to the vault for a short amount of time, then they have to get out. Or a slap dash attempt to survive it all by the skin of their teeth once the plan falls through.

The risk should be huge, but so should the reward. I'll be interested in how this turns out.

((And yes, you are reading that right, Dragon-Fire Pillbox))

[Gralamin]

Or you could go in an different direction. They end up not on Eberron, but on its Bizzaro clone, where the bank is Boatmurdered.

--
Sticking with Eberron, Dungeon 147 has a pretty good sample adventure on robbing a small one of the banks. Take it to the power of 10, if you can acquire Dungeon 147.

[Jalor]

Thanks for all the information. My players realized today that Invisibility and the Gatecrasher prestige class are not enough to rob House Kundarak, and they now have some secret plan that they won't even hint at. Either way, I'm determined to make them suffer for any lack of foresight.

I'm doing my best to make it oppressively difficult. If they're clever and resourceful, they'll at least make it out alive. If they get careless, there's a good chance cohorts will die. If they do something colossally stupid, players might die.

[AslanCross]

The biggest House Kundarak Bank in Sharn is guarded by a Slaughterstone Behemoth (MM3). It's a tourist attraction.

While there are dragons outside of Argonnessen, they tend to be incognito (if they're in Khorvaire, where Kundarak and the other Dragonmarked Houses have their primary operations), or eccentric recluses (if they're in Xen'drik, which is pretty much all ruins and jungle). It is possible that the dragon is working with Kundarak as part of an exchange program (the Argonnessen dragons are studying the draconic prophecy, in which the Dragonmarked Houses are an interesting new twist), but it is highly unlikely that the dragon will reveal his true form and/or agree to something as loathsome as guard duty.

If the PCs are attempting to hit the Sharn branch, well, here's a primer on Sharn:

Sharn is the biggest city in the entire setting, and it's called the City of Towers for a good reason. It's pretty much your equivalent of Gotham City, with skyscrapers soaring way into the air. Sharn rests on a manifest zone for Syrania, the Azure Sky (equivalent of the elemental plane of air), so flight magic works exceptionally well in it. As such, a raid by air on soarsleds (floating disks that have their speed boosted when within Sharn) is a pretty good option for both shock attack and escape (also gets you out of reach of that nasty Slaughterstone Behemoth).

The big problem is that Kundarak is likely to have recruited a cadre of Skymages (see Sharn: City of Towers) to pursue any such attackers.

[Jalor]

I don't think they're likely to hit the Sharn branch. They realize that the size of the bank doesn't matter when they all connect to the same demiplane. They're going to go after a smaller branch, which just means less work for me.'

Thanks for reminding me of the Slaughterstone constructs though. I'm planning on an encounter with a Slaughterstone Eviscerator in a trap-filled labyrinth; none of the traps will spring on anyone with a Mark of Warding, and the Slaughterstone Eviscerator works similarly.

I'm also looking at Spell Turrets (DMG2 P45). What kind of spells would House Kundarak load them with?

[Venerable]

Keep in mind that from House Kundarak's view, the best defense is a good offense. They don't blithely wait for attacks on their vaults; they have their own network of informants who monitor underworld scuttlebutt. When they catch wind of a planned raid on one of their vaults, they (or someone they hire, like assassins from House Phiarlan or Thuranni) come down on the raiders like a ton o' bricks, before the raid when possible.

As a DM, I'd watch your party's preparations very carefully. If they discuss the coming raid anywhere in public (e.g. while buying material components, or in a bar), act suspiciously (e.g. case a Kundarak bank), or have any untrustworthy allies, use whatever knowledge they leak against them—particularly when it comes to the party's vulnerabilities. "Loose lips sink ships."

[Jalor]

Keep in mind that from House Kundarak's view, the best defense is a good offense. They don't blithely wait for attacks on their vaults; they have their own network of informants who monitor underworld scuttlebutt. When they catch wind of a planned raid on one of their vaults, they (or someone they hire, like assassins from House Phiarlan or Thuranni) come down on the raiders like a ton o' bricks, before the raid when possible.

As a DM, I'd watch your party's preparations very carefully. If they discuss the coming raid anywhere in public (e.g. while buying material components, or in a bar), act suspiciously (e.g. case a Kundarak bank), or have any untrustworthy allies, use whatever knowledge they leak against them—particularly when it comes to the party's vulnerabilities. "Loose lips sink ships."

It's a Planescape campaign; they spend most of their time in Sigil and only visit Prime worlds when they can profit from it. Does House Kundarak keep informants in Sigil?

[Venerable]

That depends entirely on how evil you are. For the record, the 3.5 Eberron sourcebooks don't mention the existence of Sigil. It's a mostly self-contained universe. So the real answer is "no, if you're sticking to the sourcebooks."

[AslanCross]

I don't think they're likely to hit the Sharn branch. They realize that the size of the bank doesn't matter when they all connect to the same demiplane. They're going to go after a smaller branch, which just means less work for me.'

Thanks for reminding me of the Slaughterstone constructs though. I'm planning on an encounter with a Slaughterstone Eviscerator in a trap-filled labyrinth; none of the traps will spring on anyone with a Mark of Warding, and the Slaughterstone Eviscerator works similarly.

I'm also looking at Spell Turrets (DMG2 P45). What kind of spells would House Kundarak load them with?

I'd go with precision spells such as orbs, likely orbs of cold since those don't do much damage to objects. Include mind-affecting spells (phantasmal assailants and phantasmal killer) and enervation.

There are also likely to be extensive patrols with dwarves, warforged, and other tough creatures.

explosive runes and glyph of warding are both Dragonmark (Sp)s that Kundarak heirs get, so the players would be likely to encounter lots of them.

"Instructions for opening the vault: See below"

<Explosive Runes>

[DragoonWraith]

"Here at House Kundarak, we don't even need to prepare Explosive Runes in the morning."

[Colmarr]

The biggest House Kundarak Bank in Sharn is guarded by a Slaughterstone Behemoth (MM3). It's a tourist attraction.

Ever since I read that, I've wanted to run a scene involving a raid on the bank and the behemoth activating...

[Kylarra]

It's a Planescape campaign; they spend most of their time in Sigil and only visit Prime worlds when they can profit from it. Does House Kundarak keep informants in Sigil?

Note that even if they don't, there're probably people willing to tip them off for a reward anyway.

[Leon]

Not sure about banks but one of the Dragons (i cant recall which number and it may take a while to find it) had a feature on the House Kundark Gaol.

With examples of defenses, layouts what the guards do etc

[Athaniar]

If you're talking about Dreadhold, I have that issue. I can check it out as soon as I get home.

[AslanCross]

Ever since I read that, I've wanted to run a scene involving a raid on the bank and the behemoth activating...

Same here. There's just so much potential. There's so much than can go wrong.

[Zen Master]

Now, if I were House Kundarak, I'd make a giant show of banks, vaults, guards, wards, mazes, spells and so on and so on ... all leading to a trap.

I'd keep the real, actual vault demi-plane secret, secure and discreet, with only a very few select individuals aware of it's existance and how to access it.

Basically, since demiplanes can be custom built, I suppose I'd have a guy there with a commandword that automatically ejects anyone without the mark of warding. Possibly dumping them in Ravenloft. Not necessarily possible, but very funny.

But the main thrust of my reasoning is that ... once you've fought your way through horrors unimaginable, you find it empty - then the door slams behind you, and an army of constructs emerges from hidden trapdoors to take you to pieces.

The players might even - should they unexpectedly survive - feel the urge for revenge. Hopefully against House Kundarak, and not the GM =)

[Krrth]

As an aside, in Eberron, aren't half-dragons considered an abomination that needs to be wiped from the face of the plane by true dragons?

If so, any of them get wind of this, there will most likely be dragons.

[oxinabox]

wow, sounds remarkably similar to what my players planned to do, they ment to rob a multiplanar bank.
Coming up with defencese for that was easy.
eg they store everything in the negative energy plane, and send constucts to retreive things.

unfortunately/fortunatly the players destroyed the plane where they were planing the heist.
and now have decided to go after the pact primoidal instead.

[AslanCross]

As an aside, in Eberron, aren't half-dragons considered an abomination that needs to be wiped from the face of the plane by true dragons?

If so, any of them get wind of this, there will most likely be dragons.

By the general population of Argonnessen, yes. Tiamat's cultists, on the other hand, are actually led by half-dragon Rakshasas, which are abominations among abominations.

[DragoonWraith]

and now have decided to go after the pact primoidal instead.

I hope they've listened to Pharoah's Fist's advice...

[Krrth]

By the general population of Argonnessen, yes. Tiamat's cultists, on the other hand, are actually led by half-dragon Rakshasas, which are abominations among abominations.

...I didn't even know you could have half-dragon outsiders. Huh.

I'm basing everything off of the Blood of Vol entry of the main book where it mentions that both elves and dragons agreed half-dragons needed to be destroyed.

Other books may very well have changed that.