tired of Drizzit Do Urden and his thousand clones.

[Korivan]

Ok, I'm sure plenty of people here have seen them, yet another drow ranger desperat to throw off the stereotypical evil descriptor. Ya know, I liked the book, thought the auther was great, but really, how many times do I sit down at as dm with a new guy and what do you know.....A drow ranger, and this guys asking me how much a figurine of wonderous power: onyx panther is. TOO MANY TIMES, 8 and counting, 9 after last night. Seriously, what is the appeal to this emo elf? As a dm with a non-underdark adventuring campaign with all human/dwarf/etc., races in mostly human lands, it gets a little fusturating to hear this guy go off that people should be afraid of him, hostile, and whatnot. Not to mention the groans from his fellow players as I try to accuratly portray NPC's hostile and distrusting to them because of the drow.

So the above was more of a rant, and I'm sorry. A more serious question to the boards though. I've looked over Drizzit's stats in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I have to say, I'm dissappointed. How the heck is he a CR 18. One on one with even some of the single class fighters of the same level would wollup this guy in 1-3 rounds tops.

So what do you guys think? Why is Drizzit so often emulated? Is he good mechanicly? Whats the odds he could go up against half the builds the people on these forums come up with?

[Dixieboy]

Drizzts stats were made to accomodate the stuff he did in the books.

It's quite hard to make a D&D version of any character without even giving them too many levels, breaking a few rules and/or ending up representing them very poorly, even if they are featured primarily in stories set in a D&D setting apparantly.

As for the "Drizzt clone" jazz, I've never, ever, ever seen one in use.
Ever.

[Green Bean]

As for the "Drizzt clone" jazz, I've never, ever, ever seen one in use.
Ever.

Same here. Oddly enough, though, I've seen quite a few evil Drow describing themselves as "not another Drizzt clone"

[Korivan]

I am soooooooo very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very envious of you two.

[Athan Allgood]

I can't speak of the mechanics, as I don't have the initiative to look it up (Current Dex of 6 kills my init rolls).

However, as for the reason Drizzt is emulated so often... well, he's cool, that's the short story.

Going a little more in depth, lets look at the "stereotypical" gamer:

- At times feels ostracized by, or at the least 'different' than many of those around 'him'
- Is deeply loyal to those who he has formed bonds of friendship with
- Is looking for a path of happiness/ acceptance/ empowerment in life.

Sound like any dark elves you may know?

Of course there are many gamers outside the above mold, but I would warrant a guess that many (once again, certainly not all) of those who emulate Drizzt are doing so because they strongly sympathize and relate to the character.

By cloning the character they are searching for a way to empower themselves, much like Drizzt does in the books.

Also, creativity isn't a given. For some it is actually very hard to think up of new and/or original ideas.

My suggestion, sympathize with those who do this, help them, don't waste your time looking down on them. Many probably have enough bad in their lives already.

[woodenbandman]

Welcome to the secret society of Drizzt haters. I'm sure you've probably realized by now that everyone is a member.

EDIT: If I were to play a drow, it'd be a guy acting like a drizzt clone but is actually evil(I'd drop hints though). Example:

Fighter:"We have to save the village!"
Drow:"Huh?"
Fighter:"It's burning down! We need to save those people!"
Drow:"...Yes, I agree!"

[FoE]

Truthfully, for all ye jokes of Drizzt clones, I nevar be seein' one off the port bow except in ye webcomics.

[Green Bean]

I am soooooooo very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very envious of you two.

It isn't as fun as it sounds. Believe it or not, characters who are based entirely on not being Drizzt are just as boring as those who are.

[Matthew]

So the above was more of a rant, and I'm sorry. A more serious question to the boards though. I've looked over Drizzit's stats in Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I have to say, I'm disappointed. How the heck is he a CR 18. One on one with even some of the single class fighters of the same level would wollup this guy in 1-3 rounds tops.

Back in 1989 Drizzt was an exploitation of some first edition rules that appeared in Unearthed Arcana, but even then he was technically illegal. In second edition he was pretty powerful and also broke the rules of the game. In D20/4e he no longer broke the rules of the game, but WotC designers notoriously do not present NPCs with optimised builds, so he looks weak by comparison. Dunno what his statistics are for D20/4e.

[Xallace]

I know one guy who plays chaotic good high elven ranger/fighters dual-wielding scimitars and raging against drow society, but I've never actually seen anyone other than myself play a drow.

And I was a TN arachnaphobic assassin worshiper of Vhaerun. Not really Drizz't or anti-Drizz't.

[Dixieboy]

It isn't as fun as it sounds. Believe it or not, characters who are based entirely on not being Drizzt are just as boring as those who are.

To clarify a bit:

In their quests to be the complete opposite of this character sense kinda goes out the window.
You:"We saved the princess"
"It": "Great, now I'll go ahead and sacrifice this thing to my god lolth, and then I'm taking you all as slaves"
You ""

[Rixx]

My friend plays a Drow, but as being completely apathetic to everything around her rather than raging against Drow society.

[Green Bean]

To clarify a bit:

In their quests to be the complete opposite of this character sense kinda goes out the window.
You:"We saved the princess"
"It": "Great, now I'll go ahead and sacrifice this thing to my god lolth, and then I'm taking you all as slaves"
You ""

Or, even worse:

You: We're going to have to execute these prisoners, but as dark and gritty PCs, it won't be a problem
'Anti-Drizzt': I will do it, because I'm not like those weak Drow who are good guys, amirite?
You: Uh, sure
'Anti-Drizzt': No angst at all here. Isn't this so much better than being a goodie two-shoes?
You: ....okay, I get it
'Anti-Drizzt': Those Drow who are good are so patheti-
You: I get it!

[Two Scenes Later]

'Anti-Drizzt': You know who I hate? Good Drow!
You: Gah!

[Jade_Tarem]

You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW - a combination of our preteen fixation on how cool that character is coupled with a general lack of imagination. In a deep, dark, corner of these gamers' minds, there is the whisper, "If you play a character like that, *you'll* be cool too!"

Honestly, I read the Legend of Drizzt books, and very early on I came to the realization that Drizzt is the least interesting thing about them, followed closely by Wulfgar and Artemis Entreri. Every other character has at least a bit of mystery to them, some kind of variation in how they behave. With those three, you can already tell what they're going to do whenever a situation arises - Drizzt will attempt to avoid bloodshed, since Drizzt is noble, empathetic, and nauseatingly faux-tragic, and then he'll kick butt to fulfill the cool part of his character. Artemis Entreri will seek combat with Drizzt. Wulfgar will act like a stereotypical barbarian. The only times when they act outside of this rigid mold (maybe half a dozen times in thirteen books) are the most interesting and frequently humorous parts of the story.

Worse still, Drizzt is, for lack of a better term, perfect. Yes, perfect. His flaws are never his fault. The hundreds of crimes and killings he's done are never his fault. Anything remotely bad he does is either explained away as heroic very quickly or else is a result of him caring too much. He's much more of a superhero than an epic hero. He's the messiah of the Underdark. Drizzt can do no wrong!

Most of the other characters have at least a bit of ambiguity to them, not to mention a flaw that can't be blamed on their heritage. Bruenor is impatient, short tempered, far too stubborn, and terrible with social graces. Wulfgar is all those things as well, and adds to that being sexist and not very bright - and after his trip to the abyss he's not exactly improved. Cattie-brie has willpower/courage issues, not to mention Princess Peach syndrome. Regis is greedy, dishonest, and stinks in combat in a way that's unforgivable when you're travelling with Drizzt, Bruenor, Wulfgar, and Cattie-brie. Less important characters like Morik, Zaknafein, and Robillard are actually even more complete in the personality and behavoir department, which means that the less important you are to the plot of these books, the better your character.

The thing is, though, that playing characters with flaws is hard. When we're able to make a superhuman avatar that represents us, even in a fantasy world, we naturally want to appear as awesome as possible. This is why the characters of new players tend to resemble Drizzt and Elminster - they're literally compensating. In real life, they may be picked on at school or what have you, but in the DnD session, it's superhero time, baby!

So they play as Drizzt, and not as Bruenor or Robillard, because why have flaws when you could not have flaws? Once they gain some experience with roleplaying, they realize that these characters are boring. Then the Drizzt/Legolas/Elminster clones fade away to be replaced with better, more memorable characters. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

[Woot Spitum]

I have yet to see any drow rangers in any game I have played, but not many people I know of have actually read the books.

I can think of two serious methods and one humorous one to deal with it. One option would be to change the way the alignment system works for humanoids, ruling that there are no inherently good or evil races, only good or evil individuals. The other option would be to have your party adventure in areas where no one has ever heard of drow. If you want to go the humorous route, make it so your group adventures in an area full of chaotic good drow hippie communes.

[Zeta Kai]

The only drow that my players have chosen to run was a lawful evil rogue who wasn't as bad as he claimed to be, & was exiled from drow society from ripping of Lolthian clerics. I've played in other people's games with CG ranger drow, & it's not that bad after a few sessions. Everything's relative, I guess.

[FMArthur]

You wanna be a good drow ranger, eh? Good effing luck avoiding the optimized drow assassins using magic to search for you.

[1dominator]

You see Drizzt clones for the same reason that you see twelve billion versions of the name xXxLegolasxXx on WoW

Chinese gold farmers?

In all honesty though It is probably because most people lack imagination and playing as a good drow fits the preconceived formula many have of originality.
i.e. The character concept is "unique" in the sense that it's not part of the supposed majority. Because most drow are listed as evil, a good drow should stand out and be considered original.

[Shpadoinkle]

As a dm with a non-underdark adventuring campaign with all human/dwarf/etc., races in mostly human lands, it gets a little fusturating to hear this guy go off that people should be afraid of him, hostile, and whatnot.

I'd indulge him. Seriously. When he says that, ask to see his character sheet for a second, then rip it up and say "You get lynched and die a horrible painful death. Roll up a new character. No drow."

[Hawriel]

I had a friend a long time ago who played a drow ranger that used longswords. Thats as fair as he got to being a Drizzt clone. He did his own thing and was killed by the party when he betrayed us to a vampire wile in ravenloft.

The only time Ive ever ran into the hated Drizzt clone is on MMOs. It was so bad that I started to time how long it would take to run into one after starting a new MMO. Shortest time was 30 seconds. In STG it took almost a month.

Drizzt isnt the only one who gamers copy when making characters. Ive seen many peaple on these boards ask for advice for characters based on anime, movie or novels.

[Volkov]

Say a huge flood basalt eruption and a meteor impact wiped out the drow. It's extreme but it works.

[Xallace]

Say a huge flood basalt eruption and a meteor impact wiped out the drow. It's extreme but it works.

That was a very selective apocalypse.

[Jade_Tarem]

That was a very selective apocalypse.

Being the DM has its perks. Would you prefer a fiendish Dire Mole infestation?

[Volkov]

That was a very selective apocalypse.

Fine you caught me, the last times that happened, back in the Cretaceous and Permian, %70 to %99 of every last fricken thing died, respectively.

[Xallace]

Being the DM has its perks. Would you prefer a fiendish Dire Mole infestation?

Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.

[Volkov]

Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.

The problem is, is that would drive out much worse creatures to the surface world, such as the mind flayers, the beholders, and the aboleths. And a single beholder can pretty much wipe a small town off the face of the campaign setting's primary planet.

[Xallace]

The problem is, is that would drive out much worse creatures to the surface world, such as the mind flayers, the beholders, and the aboleths. And a single beholder can pretty much wipe a small town off the face of the campaign setting's primary planet.

That's a good point, I concede.

HOWEVER. If we assume the aforementioned pulp sci-fi setting, I'd say aberrations count as aliens. And what are aliens for in pulpy sci-fi?

For punching. By manly men with names like "Buzz Rexington" and "Samuel Washington Democracy."

[Volkov]

That's a good point, I concede.

HOWEVER. If we assume the aforementioned pulp sci-fi setting, I'd say aberrations count as aliens. And what are aliens for in pulpy sci-fi?

For punching. By manly men with names like "Buzz Rexington" and "Samuel Washington Democracy."

Wouldn't it be fun fighting an army of thousands of beholders with commoners. Oh wait that wouldn't be fun for the humans.

[seedjar]

Going a little more in depth, lets look at the "stereotypical" gamer:

- At times feels ostracized by, or at the least 'different' than many of those around 'him'
- Is deeply loyal to those who he has formed bonds of friendship with
- Is looking for a path of happiness/ acceptance/ empowerment in life.

Ooh ooh ooooh! There's a living in the basement/underdark joke here but I'm too sick to come up with a snappy one.
~Joe

[DarknessLord]

Yes. Because if the Drow have been wiped because of Mole People genocide, you have just entered the greatest pulp science fiction campaign ever.

Of course, then there's the dude who wants to play "the last Drow" to get his revenge on the mole people....

Crap, I wanna play that, or one of the side kicks, but still that is awesome!