Sneak Attacking With A Gun(4e)

[DragonBaneDM]

I'm playing a gunner ranger in my latest 4e campaign, and I love it thus far. Dealing 50 damage to stuff twice your level when you're only level 5 to begin with feels GOOD!!!

Here's the thing though, I saw a bunch of feats that I like for him, mostly for fluff reasons, and there aren't that many "essential" feats for an Archer Build I can find, so I figure I can spare a few to multiclass.

My character is a Pirate, so multiclassing rogue makes sense. I also went with Two Weapon Fighting, just because he carries a bunch of pistols on him, in traditional Pirate fashion, and I love the idea of a half orc dual wielding pistols. That and Toughness rocks due to how it ties in with his survivalist build.

I want to multclass Rogue for a variety of reasons. I think it makes sense for my character, and Two Fisted Shooter would be fun for the pistols, which I actually have yet to fire. Tie that in with the extra Sneak Attack dice, and some decent powers I'm sure I could find, and it all works.

Problem is my DM can't see me Sneak Attacking with his Revolvers that go, as most guns do, BANG BANG BANG!!!

Any ideas how I could bullspit him into going for this?

[tyckspoon]

Problem is my DM can't see me Sneak Attacking with his Revolvers that go, as most guns do, BANG BANG BANG!!!

Any ideas how I could bullspit him into going for this?

You might remind him that Sneak Attack actually has nothing to do with sneaking- it is available when you have Combat Advantage. It makes no difference how loud the weapon is when you have your friend smacking them very hard in the head to stun/daze/whatever other conditions grant CA.

Alternately, point out that by the time your weapons make any noise you have already made your attack. If the attack was launched from stealth, you'll resolve the attack before the enemies are alerted. You may ruin your stealth for further attacks, but that initial one should certainly qualify for Sneak Attack.

[Mauril Everleaf]

Well, unless you can convince him that your pistols are a light blade, sling, or crossbow, then no amount of handy explanation on how you can apply your precision damage can by-pass that RAW without a houserule.

SNEAK ATTACK
Once per round, when you have combat advantage against an enemy and hit that enemy with an attack that uses a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling, the attack deals extra damage. If you have dealt Sneak Attack damage since the start of your turn, you cannot deal it again until the start of your next turn. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.

I would just stick with the Ranger's Hunter's Quarry damage and call it a day. No convincing needed there.

[DragonBaneDM]

Well gosh darnit!!!! Hm... I could see him eventually going for it. But he'll probably bring up the point Mauril made sooner or later. I'll keep pushing it. I just like the Rogue fluff it would bring for him.

EDIT: Hm... Since Street Thug exists, I could try to talk him into an alternative feat for Ironbows, the proper term of guns in his campaign. What thinks ye, gentlemen?

[DragonBaneDM]

He's gonna lemmee do it!!! Gonna have to spend a second feat to sneak attack with my pistols, but it's good to go! :D

Hm... I'm not sure if I should, but I may post another thread for help with this new build, but if anyone wants to weigh in I'd appreciate it.

Here's what I'm looking at:

When I'm in "Rogue Mode", I'll have two pistols out, which deal 1d8 at a good range. I'm gonna take Two Fisted Shooter, so reloading becomes cake, and crits with these let me make another attack, and multiple attacks are the point of the ranger.

What other feats, and rogue powers, would work really well for this guy?

[serok42]

Well, unless you can convince him that your pistols are a light blade, sling, or crossbow, then no amount of handy explanation on how you can apply your precision damage can by-pass that RAW without a houserule.

Guns Sling Bullets

He is a gun slinger

[Sipex]

Houseruling a feat to allow you to sneak attack with pistols sounds reasonable.

Hey, what book are guns detailed in or did your DM stat them up himself?

[Tiki Snakes]

Houseruling a feat to allow you to sneak attack with pistols sounds reasonable.

Hey, what book are guns detailed in or did your DM stat them up himself?

I'm guessing it's homebrew, myself. I thoroughly endorse piratical pistol sneak-attacking, too. I thoroughly intend to write in some dwarven air-pirates in my next campaign, so shall be likely doing much the same myself.

[LibraryOgre]

FWIW, since you can sneak attack with crossbows, I can see no reason whatsoever that it wouldn't work with pistols.

[Dixieboy]

Well, unless you can convince him that your pistols are a light blade, sling, or crossbow, then no amount of handy explanation on how you can apply your precision damage can by-pass that RAW without a houserule.



I would just stick with the Ranger's Hunter's Quarry damage and call it a day. No convincing needed there.

So wait, you can't sneak attack with a bow?

[Yuki Akuma]

FWIW, since you can sneak attack with crossbows, I can see no reason whatsoever that it wouldn't work with pistols.

Some crossbows even fire bullets! And there's such a thing as a gun that shoots bolts.

They are, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. The only difference is the amount of recoil - making pistols require another feat to use well.

[Dixieboy]

Some crossbows even fire bullets! And there's such a thing as a gun that shoots bolts.

Your sarcasm broke, the bolded part is actually true.

[Yuki Akuma]

Your sarcasm broke, the bolded part is actually true.

I... I wasn't being sarcastic.

Guns and crossbows really are the same sort of weapon, and both crossbows that fire bullets (where do you think they got the idea for muskets?) and guns that fire bolts are very real weapons.

[Dixieboy]

I... I wasn't being sarcastic.

My sarcasm-o-meter is the broken thing it seems then.

[Yuki Akuma]

My God, is that all you people see me as now? The sarcastic guy?

I... I need to go lie down.

[Tehnar]

So anyone have any idea why you can't sneak attack with anything other then the listed weapons?

[Yuki Akuma]

Thematic appropriateness. Rogues are the guys who use light blades, crossbows and slings.

Plus, sneak attacking with a five-foot-long sword is just silly.

[Tiki Snakes]

So wait, you can't sneak attack with a bow?

not afaik. However, you can sneak attack with (one handed?)hammers and picks, if you are a dwarf, and pick the appropriate racial feat from, er, somewhere. ^_^

[Dixieboy]

So anyone have any idea why you can't sneak attack with anything other then the listed weapons?

Because the other core weapons aren't really stereotypically sneaky. (Maybe apart from the bow)

[Tehnar]

Hmm I wouldn't call a Great Crossbow exactly a sneaky weapon.

[Kylarra]

Thematic appropriateness. Rogues are the guys who use light blades, crossbows and slings.

Plus, sneak attacking with a five-foot-long sword is just silly.

You can do it as an eladrin though... for -1 die sneak attack damage with a feat.

[Dixieboy]

Hmm I wouldn't call a Great Crossbow exactly a sneaky weapon.

I think of that as a sniper or something like that.

[Yuki Akuma]

Crossbows are good sniping weapons. Better than bows, at least.

And they're not particularly loud. You could fire one from a floor up and nobody would notice - until you hit someone.

[dragoonsgone]

So anyone have any idea why you can't sneak attack with anything other then the listed weapons?

I always thought it was for balance too. Light weapons are lower damage than heavy weapons. Crossbows have comparable damage to a bow but require an action to reload without a feat.

[FoE]

There are ... guns in 4E? Where are there guns?

I don't mind, of course. I'm not one of those proponents of Fantasy Gun Control.

[Prime32]

This thread's title made me think of Unforgotten Realms

"And then kill them in their sleep... with a gun!"

[Artanis]

So wait, you can't sneak attack with a bow?

You can't hardly do anything with a bow. If you're a Ranger and want to use a bow, you might as well just forget about multiclassing altogether.

[BobTheDog]

You can't hardly do anything with a bow. If you're a Ranger and want to use a bow, you might as well just forget about multiclassing altogether.

There is some Bard stuff in Arcane power that works with bows, too... I think.

[Artanis]

There is, but you have to qualify for the MC feat first, which isn't easy for a class with CHA as an official dump stat. The Artificer also has stuff that works with bows, but again, the feat requires pumping a dump stat.

Edit:

The only option I can recall finding is Seldarine Dedicate (Cleric PP from Divine Power). However, only Elves and Eladrin can take it, and it specifies Shortbow or Longbow, meaning no superior weapon feats.

[LibraryOgre]

There's also some Warlord powers that work via Ranged Weapons, and some Rogue powers (though those MAY require you be using a "rogue weapon").