In game uses for "craft (legal contract)" or "Profession (lawyer)"

[taltamir]

So... what are some of the in game uses you can come up with for the above mentioned skills?

[Killer Angel]

So... what are some of the in game uses you can come up with for the above mentioned skills?

Examples:
if your character is someone who's starting controlling a ship, you can roll on "Craft - legal contract" and obtain more favoreable conditions (and more money) for your activity. Later you'll control a company of ships, or a group of merchant, and this will apply too.
Or when your group is working (under contract) for someone, with a limited freedom of action: you can bypass some limits without consequences, with a good roll of Profession: lawyer.

[Sliver]

I would use it instead of bluff, against sense motive, or diplomacy, to get favored conditions or even get in some fine print.. Maybe sign the party on a contract "oh, you didn't read that? your soul, I sold it.."

[Eldariel]

Sufficient ranks in either should allow you to summon Law Ninjas.

[BobVosh]

Since the obvious hasn't been mentioned: In court. I've been tried a few times in D&D.

[Grumman]

I'd break it into two parts:

First, you have Knowledge ([Whereever] Law) [Int]. It would prove most useful for knowing how to not break the law, or to know whether what someone else is doing would be illegal. On the other hand it is only useful if you've got a non-intuitive legal framework (since you hardly need a Knowledge check to guess that stealing might be against the law) and the government has the power to enforce the law (which they probably don't).

Second, you have the know-how to pull one over someone else with seemingly mundane rules - let's call it Rules Lawyering [Int]. This requires intimate knowledge of the laws you are planning to abuse, a lack of ethics, and the ability to force the other party to go along with it once you try to collect. Unless you're ripping off innocent people in a society evil or legalistic enough to enforce your deception, the only use is going to be for wishes or subverting certain forms of mind control.

[Malacode]

I can see these skills getting some use in any game where you'd come across one of these. Then again, what DM is -that- sadistic?

[KillianHawkeye]

These skills would be essential in any game featuring heavy involvement with Devils.

[SatyreIkon]

These skills would be essential in any game featuring heavy involvement with Devils.

...although I'd prefer the skill "Craft (Emergency Exit)" when someone really MEANS to start drawing up contracts with a devil

[Killer Angel]

These skills would be essential in any game featuring heavy involvement with Devils.

They had it higher. With racial bonuses on top of it.
Oh, and they can take 10 even when hard-pressed.

[Riffington]

They had it higher. With racial bonuses on top of it.
Oh, and they can take 10 even when hard-pressed.

That's ok, you aren't trying to beat the devil. (Not if you're smart anyway).
You are making the devil the (well-paid) enforcer of your crafty contract with another mortal. You don't have to be the best one in the room, just better than the victim.

[Killer Angel]

That's ok, you aren't trying to beat the devil. (Not if you're smart anyway).

Yep, to beat the devil, you must max your skill in:
a) play chess
b) perform Rock & Roll

[Yuki Akuma]

If you ever go to Baator, those skills will come in handy.

Trust me.

[Temet Nosce]

I can see these skills getting some use in any game where you'd come across one of these. Then again, what DM is -that- sadistic?

You beat me to it.

Yeah though, the first thing that popped into my mind (right before the tax collector) was for wishes. Your character could create loophole free wishes.

Also, any time your character entered into an agreement he could bury tons of extra stuff in the minutiae to force it in his favor.

[Kalirren]

A good Profession (lawyer) check is an immensely useful skill. All you have to do to assemble a mafia is visit jail, find some criminal who doesn't stand a chance of surviving trial, and make it clear to them that you can get them out (or at least get the society not to kill them) but they will owe you big time.

Do this 4 or 5 times and you've got yourself a little gang, and lots of contacts in all sorts of different places within the underworld.

[Random832]

Yep, to beat the devil, you must max your skill in:
a) play chess
b) perform Rock & Roll

Don't forget perform (fiddle).

[Person_Man]

As an aside, several members of my D&D group in college were also in mock trial or MUN. One of them is now a lawyer, and two others work in government. But suprisingly, we had few rules arguments (though plenty of "how the heck does this work" arguments). Good times.

[CheshireCatAW]

In most games I've played, unless you're in a very large urban area, there's little need for a large judicial system. Your best bet for using them is probably when a local Magistrate first arrives to arrest you. Once you're in jail on the frontier, you've got no one to plead to, really.

In the city, maybe they will tell you just how many statutes you are breaking by adventuring in the BBEG's house, or delaying the Town Guard from arresting the lot of you if you alert them.

The most obvious use would be during a trial. I might use whatever your roll over your DC as a penalty for the bad guy, as if you're interjecting their arguments with valid objections.

[Yukitsu]

I can see these skills getting some use in any game where you'd come across one of these. Then again, what DM is -that- sadistic?

Actually, those were the reason my tech-mage loaded his guns with grey goo.

If you wanted to make money off of it, consider what type of law you want to delve into. Some lawyers draft up contracts, and would be using craft, while other lawyers go to court and argue, which would be perform or profession depending on how "Boston Legal" they are.

[Da Pwnzlord]

Iron out the contracts for Planer Ally/Binding, and make sure the DM can't subvert your Wish.

[Lysander]

You could also just offer your services to others to earn pay, just like with any other Profession or Craft skill. What in game uses are there for Craft (Baskets) or Profession (Basketmaker)? Making baskets and selling baskets.

[taltamir]

You could also just offer your services to others to earn pay, just like with any other Profession or Craft skill. What in game uses are there for Craft (Baskets) or Profession (Basketmaker)? Making baskets and selling baskets.

ha!... player one: I have been thinking of signing a contract with a demon
player two: craft legalese contract... now who do I ask for money, the demon or my party member? or both?

[chiasaur11]

...although I'd prefer the skill "Craft (Emergency Exit)" when someone really MEANS to start drawing up contracts with a devil

Great.

Now I see a meeting with a devil, party's antsy but it seems to be almost working out. Sure, they're not getting anything out of it it, but they might get out with souls intact. This could work...

And then the Barbarian/cleric of the Doom Marine wakes up. And it all gets a little hazy from there.