Pathfinder Monk

[warmachine]

We all know about the 3.5e Monk and that Pathfinder has given base classes extra love. The question is: what is the Pathfinder Monk good for and how does it compare to the other classes?

[PinkysBrain]

We all know about the 3.5e Monk and that Pathfinder has given base classes extra love.

He gets TWF as bonus feats, but loses 1 flurry attack and has to pay for one from his ki pool ... I wouldn't call this progress (he makes less attacks than a TWF 3.5e monk ... who couldn't dent a pack of butter in the first place). All his abilities still don't synergize. He can DD a couple more times per day than before.

As a full class it's slightly better than in 3e because of grapple/trip changes, but he's still going to be outclassed at that left and right. Still nothing to be proud of. As a dip class it actually got worse.

All in all ... lousy damage potential. Lousy utility. Lousy class.

Ninja is still just plain better.

[Starbuck_II]

Ninja is still just plain better.

Don't you mean Swordsage?

[PinkysBrain]

Don't you mean Swordsage?

Well of course ...

I should have said, EVEN the ninja is still just plain better.

[PinkysBrain]

Oops I completely misread the attack bonus entries ... yeah I guess he is a lot better now.

Still his abilities still don't synergize at all.

[Rixx]

They use their Monk level as their BAB when using Flurry of Blows, now, so no more Flurry of Whiffs.

[Darrin]

They use their Monk level as their BAB when using Flurry of Blows, now, so no more Flurry of Whiffs.

Yes, but are they proficient with unarmed strikes now? (Seriously... I forgot to check that.)

Last time I looked at the Pathfinder Monk... it still has all the problems of the original 3.5 monk. And Quivering Palm is still 1/week?!?! Makes my blood boil. EPIC FAIL.

[Starbuck_II]

Yes, but are they proficient with unarmed strikes now? (Seriously... I forgot to check that.)

Last time I looked at the Pathfinder Monk... it still has all the problems of the original 3.5 monk. And Quivering Palm is still 1/week?!?! Makes my blood boil. EPIC FAIL.

Beta said eveyone was proficient, but I can't find that line in the PSRD.

[Kantur]

Beta said eveyone was proficient, but I can't find that line in the PSRD.

All characters are proficient with unarmed strikes and any natural weapons possessed by their race.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons

Second last sentance, but it's one you have to look for, especially as the paragraph begins with "Anybody but a druid, monk, or wizard is proficient with all simple weapons."

[DragoonWraith]

It's possible to be not proficient with your own fists? I mean, OK, in reality, sure, but you'd figure just about every adventurer out there would be. The Wizard is about the only class that I can justify not giving that proficiency to...

[taltamir]

It's possible to be not proficient with your own fists? I mean, OK, in reality, sure, but you'd figure just about every adventurer out there would be. The Wizard is about the only class that I can justify not giving that proficiency to...

proficient means you know how to fight with it properly... MOST people are not proficient with their own fists... sure they can swing it, but a non proficient person can also swing a sword (-4 to attack). Think of someone you know who has no clue how to throw a punch, they are non proficient with their own fists.

Worse, proficiency in DnD means you are formally trained in using something to fight an ARMED and trained opponent in real combat... not pugilism...

I would say only monks are proficient... warriors and paladins can be considered proficient when fighting an UNARMED opponent with no natural attacks. (aka, if they get into a fistfight with someone)

MARTIAL WEAPON PROFICIENCY
[GENERAL]
Choose a type of martial weapon, such as a longbow (see Table 7–5: Weapons, page 116, for a list of martial weapons). You understand how to use that type of martial weapon in combat.
Use this feat to expand the list of weapons with which you are proficient beyond the basic list in your class description.

the other proficiencies ALL also state explicitly that it is IN COMBAT.

[theMycon]

It's minorly depowered from the Beta, but the monk in the Beta was... rather ridiculous.

The biggest boosts the monks got aren't exactly in the class itself. It's in the feats and items. The amulet of Mighty Fists now lets you get enchantments, and go directly to them (i.e. getting a Holy enchantment as a +2, rather than a +1 holy sword for +3). The +WIS item isn't an amulet anymore, so you can actually use Mighty Fists. And there's Vital Strike, which'll essentially double damage output.

Now that you have more feats in general, and all the Combat Maneuvers can be dex based, STR is basically a dump stat past level 6 (when you can get improved natural attack). You need enough to carry your equipment and no more.

You'll still need help hitting, and there's still the whole "why can't I move AND hurt folk?" issue, but overall it's pretty decent. On par with any of the other mostly-melee classes (unless they de-neutered Power Attack).