Fun with Sun Blades

[Cieyrin]

Probably not something most people look to as an interesting weapon but the wording for it's usage peaks my interest a bit. Given you can treat it as either a bastard sword or a short sword opens up some interesting avenues, like using Shadow Blade with it or Weapon Finesse to go all Dex with one. Since it's used with the ease of a short sword, a light weapon, you could dual wield 2 Sun Blades and not have to bother with Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting.

Any other tricks people can think of for using these interesting weapons? Almost makes me want to pull out my old Lone Wolf books and homebrew a Kai Lord PRC.

[deuxhero]

Hmm, are Rogues are proficient with it?

[The Rose Dragon]

Hmm, are Rogues are proficient with it?

They count as bastard swords and short swords at the same time, so yes.

[Elfin]

The Sun Blade has always intrigued me; it would definitely be cool to do a Shadow Blade build with 'em.

[jiriku]

Yep, it's like two free feats in a can for a TWF-build. (EWP bastard sword and OTWF). Plus, feats like weapon focus and weapon spec can then be shared if your other weapon is an actual shortsword. It's also one of a VERY small group of finessable weapons that can be wielded two-handed, so it's a viable weapon for a two-handed leap attack build. A Dex-based ranger could use power attack, favored power attack, weapon finesse, quickdraw and leap attack to deal significant damage wielding it two-handed on a charge, then quick-draw his shortsword and be well-equipped for a two-weapon full attack on the following round.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft page 210 has the Sunsword, which is a Sun Blade for 3000 gp with none of the extraneous abilities. Just a +1 bastard short sword.

[Elfin]

A Dex-based ranger could use power attack, favored power attack, weapon finesse, quickdraw and leap attack to deal significant damage wielding it two-handed on a charge, then quick-draw his shortsword and be well-equipped for a two-weapon full attack on the following round.

I'll have to remember this one...

[PinkysBrain]

If he can use leap attack he can probably cast Lion's Charge.

[FMArthur]

A samurai can use it to... well, be another idiot samurai. But it's simultaneously both of the weapons the samurai specialize in (poorly)!

[jiriku]

A samurai can use it to... well, be another idiot samurai. But it's simultaneously both of the weapons the samurai specialize in (poorly)!

Oh, good point! This could be used to redeem a samurai build...oh, wait, you get EWP whether you want it or not...nevermind.... :P

[♠Spade♠]

This weapon intrigues me. What book(s) is it in besides Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

[Kyeudo]

This weapon intrigues me. What book(s) is it in besides Expedition to Castle Ravenloft?

The DMG. It's one of the specific weapons listed there.

[♠Spade♠]

The DMG. It's one of the specific weapons listed there.

WHAT?! Shenanigans, I say! *Checks DMG* Huh...how about that. I wonder how I've had this book for years and never noticed it in there.

[Mitth'raw'nuruo]

Because you never read it cover to cover?

Of when you did....you did not know enough about the game to know what you were reading :-)

[Zephyros]

One of my first games in 3.5 featured a ranger with two sunblades which the DM gloriously sundered cuz "Alexia is overpowered with these weapons...She chops my demons like crazy" The cold iron demonbane shortswords I crafted for her in a couple of sessions in conjuction with her favored enemy (Demon) taught him otherwise

Goooood Times

[Person_Man]

WHAT?! Shenanigans, I say! *Checks DMG* Huh...how about that. I wonder how I've had this book for years and never noticed it in there.

Big problem though - the Sun Blade costs 50,335 gp. The earliest you could afford it would be ECL 11. It's essentially the same as a +5 weapon. And I have much better things to do with a +5 weapon.

Interestingly enough, it was in 2nd ed DMG as well, and I remember reading a novel where the protagonist wielded one. I can't remember if it was in 1st ed or not. But it's clearly a legacy item, not something designed to fit a specific build.

[Cieyrin]

Big problem though - the Sun Blade costs 50,335 gp. The earliest you could afford it would be ECL 11. It's essentially the same as a +5 weapon. And I have much better things to do with a +5 weapon.

Interestingly enough, it was in 2nd ed DMG as well, and I remember reading a novel where the protagonist wielded one. I can't remember if it was in 1st ed or not. But it's clearly a legacy item, not something designed to fit a specific build.

Well, of course it's a legacy item, just like the Flametongue and Frostbrand are from the earliest editions (Hell, i think the white box, if my dad's stories about his characters from that period are any indication). The items themselves haven't changed that much since earlier periods, just updated to the current edition (though I haven't gone looking for 'em in 4E but I have no plans to, either).

In any case, despite their expense, they've only gotten more useful with time. From Shadow Blade (the irony of using a blade of light for a shadowy type deal isn't lost on me) to the the Exotic Weapon Master's Uncanny Blow, there are numerous tricks you can do with 'em that makes 'em more valuable some of the other specific weapons that come in the DMG (the poor Flame Tongue, for example, is not worth the cost. The Oath bow isn't much better except for sniper duty maybe. The Sword of the Planes just isn't that interesting).

[Myou]

Question, why is it only able to cast Daylight once a day?

Daylight seems a pretty weak ability to begin with - other than a slightly wider radius I can't see how it's better than that Light cantrip.

[ericgrau]

Big problem though - the Sun Blade costs 50,335 gp. The earliest you could afford it would be ECL 11. It's essentially the same as a +5 weapon. And I have much better things to do with a +5 weapon.

Interestingly enough, it was in 2nd ed DMG as well, and I remember reading a novel where the protagonist wielded one. I can't remember if it was in 1st ed or not. But it's clearly a legacy item, not something designed to fit a specific build.

Not really. You can't get a +5 weapon until that level anyway. So you get a sun blade when you would get a +5 weapon. As for how much it's worth, it's as good as:
+3 shortsword against all creatures
+5 shortsword vs evil creatures
+8 shortsword vs. negative energy plane or undead creatures
I counted ~2-3 extra base damage (increasable with crits) as equal to a +1, because other +1 equivalent damage enchantments give 1d6 (not increasable with crits).

So in a campaign with undead it's invaluable, and even when fighting your run of the mill evil baddy it still keeps up.

Question, why is it only able to cast Daylight once a day?

Daylight seems a pretty weak ability to begin with - other than a slightly wider radius I can't see how it's better than that Light cantrip.

It's a fairly minor flavor addition, but it does have a use. Daylight is good for taking down equal or lower level darkness spells. Also, like all glowing weapons (30% of all weapons), the blade always gives off light as a light spell anyway.

[Kris Strife]

One of my two favorite core items. That my favorite core class is Paladin doesn't hurt either.

[Myou]

It's a fairly minor flavor addition, but it does have a use. Daylight is good for taking down equal or lower level darkness spells.

Yeah, but so is Dispel Magic, which is infinitely better and the same level.

You can even get the targeted dispel a level earlier.

I just don't see why it needs to be 1/day - it's just lame. At-will is just fine when all it does is dispel Darkness.

[ericgrau]

Probably because it doesn't really increase the cost of the weapon - it's reasonably priced even without any daylight power - and daylight is an automatic success against darkness unlike dispel. If you want at will daylight, add another 20k to the weapon's price.

EDIT: Oh yeah, daylight is also great against bright light sensitive creatures like drow. I don't think a regular light is bright enough.

[Cieyrin]

One of my two favorite core items. That my favorite core class is Paladin doesn't hurt either.

I'm guessing your other favorite is a holy avenger.

As for the Sunlight Power, it's kinda gimicky, given how slow it is to get the daylight effect going and that you have to stand there waving it around to get it going. I guess it's only real use is for countering darkness effects, as ericgrau has already said. It was designed before the latest crop of magic items came with the MiC and DMG2, so you got it a bit of slack for not necessarily being up to snuff in that area.

[jiriku]

It was designed before the latest crop of magic items came with the MiC and DMG2, so you got it a bit of slack for not necessarily being up to snuff in that area.

Haha no kidding! It was designed back when I was just a twinkle my daddy's eye and Gary Gygax was thinking "I wonder if we ought to make a second edition of this thing?"

[Cieyrin]

Haha no kidding! It was designed back when I was just a twinkle my daddy's eye and Gary Gygax was thinking "I wonder if we ought to make a second edition of this thing?"

Same for me, though I was referring to the 3.5 version.

[Set]

Expedition to Castle Ravenloft page 210 has the Sunsword, which is a Sun Blade for 3000 gp with none of the extraneous abilities. Just a +1 bastard short sword.

Oh, I am so in love with that item. A dual-short-sword wielding beatstick with the appropriate Feats and a pair of Sun Blades (or Sunswords) would kick butt.

I always wanted to write up a 'lesser sun blade' without the extraneous crap, but the name Moon Blade was already associated with something else... Nice to know that it's already been done, so I don't have to figure out how much it would cost!

Other two-fer variants, such as a Hand Axe that hits like a Dwarven Waraxe or a Buckler that defends like a Heavy Shield, could rock mightily.

[DragoonWraith]

Not really. You can't get a +5 weapon until that level anyway. So you get a sun blade when you would get a +5 weapon. As for how much it's worth, it's as good as:
+3 shortsword against all creatures
+5 shortsword vs evil creatures
+8 shortsword vs. negative energy plane or undead creatures
I counted ~2-3 extra base damage (increasable with crits) as equal to a +1, because other +1 equivalent damage enchantments give 1d6 (not increasable with crits).

So in a campaign with undead it's invaluable, and even when fighting your run of the mill evil baddy it still keeps up.

Except no one actually gets +5 weapons. They get +1 weapons with lots of extra abilities tacked on. And then they get Greater Magic Weapon cast on them.

Sure, you get 3 extra damage against Undead. That's... not a lot. And you're paying heavily for it.

[Kris Strife]

I'm guessing your other favorite is a holy avenger.

Actually, not so much. I prefer hand-and-a-half swords (darn censor) to long swords, partially because they don't get enough representation in magical items, also because switching between sword and board or THF on the fly is a useful ability IMO.

[shadow_archmagi]

Suaaghin with four arms and every one a sunblade using Tiger Claw.

[sofawall]

Actually, not so much. I prefer hand-and-a-half swords (darn censor) to long swords, partially because they don't get enough representation in magical items, also because switching between sword and board or THF on the fly is a useful ability IMO.

Does it seriously block Bastard Sword?

EDIT: I didn't think it did. What about just Bastard?

EDIT2: Nope. Rich (or whoever made the censor, likely not Rich upon reflection) is no fool.