Any suggestions for powerful spells for trans? not broken mind you, need DM approval

[taltamir]

I am looking for some good spells for a transmuter (which is pretty much limited to transmutation spells), but they can't be "crazy" because the DM will not allow those. Any suggestions?

[PinkysBrain]

Books? 10ch

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Enlarge Person
Reduce Person
Alter Self
Spider Climb
Rope Trick
Fly
Slow
Haste
Greater Magic Weapon
Shrink Item
Stone Shape
Baleful Polymorph
Fabricate
Overland Flight
Telekinesis
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
Etheral Jaunt
Reverse Gravity
Time Stop

[arguskos]

I'll guarantee he's looking for levels 1-3 at the moment. All books are permitted, but if you give something from a source that isn't the PHB or Spell Compendium, list source and page, if you would.

Note: I'm the DM in question.

Also, Pharaoh:

Enlarge Person
Reduce Person
Spider Climb
Rope Trick
Fly
Slow
Haste
Greater Magic Weapon
Shrink Item
Stone Shape
Overland Flight
Telekinesis
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
Reverse Gravity

The above he'll get. Anything else on that list is gone for balance concerns (though, Alter Self technically exists, but is heavily altered and is at level 4). Good list though. Tal, take notes.

[taltamir]

thanks everyone... I will.

What are some of the things you can do with shrink item? (beyond the obvious that is).

[arguskos]

What can you do with a shrunken tree? Or boulder? Or building? Or whatever? Depends on your creativity.

[Myrmex]

Enlarge Person
Reduce Person
Alter Self
Spider Climb
Rope Trick
Fly
Slow
Haste
Greater Magic Weapon
Shrink Item
Stone Shape
Baleful Polymorph
Fabricate
Overland Flight
Telekinesis
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone
Etheral Jaunt
Reverse Gravity
Time Stop

OMG I love the transmutation school so much.

[jiriku]

Most commonly, you use it to conceal weapons or stolen goods, or anything else you're not supposed to have, or to carry improbably large and heavy objects conveniently.

Bonus points if you use it to steal something valuable, sleight of hand stolen goods onto someone else, and then sic the law on them. Extra bonus points if you collect a reward for turning in the "criminal".

Another useful transmutation spell: feather fall. You'd be surprised how frequently a party of adventurers finds themselves on the wrong side of an argument with gravity.

[taltamir]

Another useful transmutation spell: feather fall. You'd be surprised how frequently a party of adventurers finds themselves on the wrong side of an argument with gravity.

It saved the lives of various party members at least 4 times in as many sessions :). I never leave home without it.

What can you do with a shrunken tree? Or boulder? Or building? Or whatever? Depends on your creativity.

it can do a whole building? ooooh....

[PinkysBrain]

What are some of the things you can do with shrink item? (beyond the obvious that is).

Turn a circular wall of stone into a nice belt and you have got yourself dispel magic/AMF protection (carve steps on the inside before shrinking).

[Temet Nosce]

thanks everyone... I will.

What are some of the things you can do with shrink item? (beyond the obvious that is).

A personal favorite of mine is shrinking alchemist's fire, then shooting it out of a catapult (or really any other delivery method) since the spell breaks the moment it hits (leaving whoever you shot/threw them at to deal with an enormous number of vials of alchemist's fire).

Also, tossing a shrunken boulder at someone is amusing due to breaking on hit.

[taltamir]

A personal favorite of mine is shrinking alchemist's fire, then shooting it out of a catapult (or really any other delivery method) since the spell breaks the moment it hits (leaving whoever you shot/threw them at to deal with an enormous number of vials of alchemist's fire).

Also, tossing a shrunken boulder at someone is amusing due to breaking on hit.

nice... you can also use a command word to make it take original size right before hitting for some splatter damage.

[BobVosh]

thanks everyone... I will.

What are some of the things you can do with shrink item? (beyond the obvious that is).

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94203

There is a few other threads based around that one spell.

[taltamir]

mmm... very creative and deadly uses...
2300 d6 damage from alchemist fire is especially nice.

shrink a boulder sized lump of iron... shape it into a stabbing weapon. Stab someone and then unshrink it while in their body.
eh, too much effort, the ideas they gave like air bombing cities are far more effective...

[Bang]

I am looking for some good spells for a transmuter (which is pretty much limited to transmutation spells), but they can't be "crazy" because the DM will not allow those. Any suggestions?

I'm too lazy to look through books. Luckily, someone else did this for me.

[Cyclocone]

Can it be from any list?

Glass Strike
Ray of Clumsiness
Greater Blink
Spell Enhancer
Venomfire
Nerveskitter
Decapitating Scarf
Mass Snakes Swiftness
Greater Mighty Wallop
Mental Pinnacle is awesome
and Quick Potion makes it cheap
Kaupars Quickblast is ok with fell drain/frighten on it
Amplify is handy if you're in a zone of silence
Whispercast can be handy
Sakratars Tripple Strike is like haste on crack
Mineralixe Warrior is Trans IIRC

I can't remember the source on all of them though. Some are SpC, and there are some LEoF and LoM in there as well.

By the way, how about Anyspell, Celerity, Control Winds, Animate City?
There's some Ok Transmutation spells in Serpent Kingdoms too...

[Fishy]

Turn a circular wall of stone into a nice belt and you have got yourself dispel magic/AMF protection (carve steps on the inside before shrinking).

The variant of this is the Tinfoil Hat, favored by CO wizards everywhere. Wall of Iron + Fabricate yourself a solid metal conical teepee, then Shrink Item it into a stylish pointy wizard's hat. (Or capped cylinder, if you prefer a fez.) Advantage over the rock belt is that it grants you total concealment from all directions.

[Tavar]

Any reason you took Baleful Polymorph out? It lacks any of the uses that make the rest of the core Polymorph school broken, and is really just a Fort save or die.

[Lamech]

I for one think the cleric's plane shift can be a lot more deadly. (And no, it isn't coming back from 5-500 miles away from the suns center.)

[PinkysBrain]

The variant of this is the Tinfoil Hat, favored by CO wizards everywhere. Wall of Iron + Fabricate yourself a solid metal conical teepee, then Shrink Item it into a stylish pointy wizard's hat. (Or capped cylinder, if you prefer a fez.) Advantage over the rock belt is that it grants you total concealment from all directions.

It has some risks the belt doesn't.

[taltamir]

It has some risks the belt doesn't.

wouldn't both be very risky? the hat can crush you, especially if it falls off of your head. The belt can crush your teammates as it expands. Not to mention tear things apart...Also, not very good if you ever trip (it hits the floor, ergo, spell breaks)

[PinkysBrain]

wouldn't both be very risky? the hat can crush you, especially if it falls off of your head.

Or drag you under water, or make featherfall completely futile, or trap you with the raging barbarian with a spellstoring ring of AMF, or or or.

The belt can crush your teammates as it expands. Not to mention tear things apart...Also, not very good if you ever trip (it hits the floor, ergo, spell breaks)

I'd class those more as inconveniences than risks.

[Glyde]

Fox's Cunning is a good opener (If you're a wizard, which I'm assuming.) as it'll boost your save DCs

[arguskos]

I for one think the cleric's plane shift can be a lot more deadly. (And no, it isn't coming back from 5-500 miles away from the suns center.)

Oh yes, I did forget to remove Plane Shift (and I really shoulda remembered, based on campaign restrictions on the planar cosmology ).

As for Baleful Polymorph, I actually was sad to see it go, because you're right, it's not a bad spell. However, any and every Polymorph-based or derivative effect is gone, save for things like Trollshape, and that means Baleful too. It's not quite fair to change the rules of magic to not permit powerful reshaping techniques like Polymorph and then say, "Oh, but THIS one is fine". Just something that verisimilitude demanded. I do try and be fair about such things.

[Eldariel]

As for Baleful Polymorph, I actually was sad to see it go, because you're right, it's not a bad spell. However, any and every Polymorph-based or derivative effect is gone, save for things like Trollshape, and that means Baleful too. It's not quite fair to change the rules of magic to not permit powerful reshaping techniques like Polymorph and then say, "Oh, but THIS one is fine". Just something that verisimilitude demanded. I do try and be fair about such things.

I dunno, shifting shape to generate a much larger and more formidable creature is much different from forcing something to become a mouse or some such; I'd imagine a form change that makes an opponent infinitely weaker, provided the opponent doesn't manage to resist the spell, requires much less magic to work out.

[arguskos]

Well, it's not due to balance with Baleful, but more that this campaign world doesn't actually have any way to force a shift in a creature's form. Things like Bull's Strength magically ADD strength or magically enhances their person, not change their form to be something else.

Polymorph has been removed due to balance and world limitations. This means EVERYTHING is gone, save for rather limited effects such as Alter Self (nerfed severely and higher level) and things that shift you into a SINGLE form, such as Trollshape.

If you'd like to know the reason why, I'm happy to take this to PMs, so as not to jack up taltamir's thread.

[taltamir]

Taking a balista bolt, shrinking it to crossbow size, choosing the "solid" option, and saying the command word if you hit (expanding it within the enemy's body) sounds interesting. so does carrying 4 tons of something and having it weigh only 2 pounds. mmm, actually, I think an enemy's body or armor counts as a "solid surface" and would undo the transformation upon hit... besides, imagine the enemy's moral when a crossbolt zooms by, and then suddenly becomes a ballista bolt that leaves a hole in the wall 1 foot across :)

I think rather than "belts" or hats, Ill just have multiple walls of stone / iron / fire / whatever shrunk into plush form, and distributed to party members.
Saying a single word is a free action. to prevent accidents I can encase them in a bottle... without encasement, party member or I throws it on ground and it grows. With encasement, we put it, align it properly, then I say the command word.

Oh, I forgot to say... I have a starting int of 20, and I already got greater spell focus transmutation...

So my base DC is +7 and it is gonna go higher. Spells with a saving throw are looking might interesting right now.

[Keld Denar]

WHIRLING BLADE YO!!!!!!

My favorite Transmutation spell EVAR!

Kinda specialized though, better for gishes than straight wizards, but really useful if you have a Dragonfire Inspiration bard in your party.

Slow, Haste, and Fly are so freakin amazing that its difficult to concentrate. Slow in particular, is way better than it should be, especially when you are facing monsters with multiattack or anyone who TWFs. Being denied a full attack is nearly crippling. Haste adds so much damage per round, assuming a decent party, that its also rather rediculous. Fly has so much use as a utility spell and as a combat spell, making it nearly invaluable.

[taltamir]

yes, I got whirling blade, I am IMPRESSED. :)

Question, does using a two handed weapon for whirling blade means adding 1.5x str (or int) bonus to damage? because you add it to your attack normally. (well, at your choice str or your primary casting ability)

Question2, can you use whirling blade with an oversized weapon? is there a penalty to it?

[arguskos]

yes, I got whirling blade, I am IMPRESSED. :)

Question, does using a two handed weapon for whirling blade means adding 1.5x str (or int) bonus to damage? because you add it to your attack normally. (well, at your choice str or your primary casting ability)

Question2, can you use whirling blade with an oversized weapon? is there a penalty to it?

Q1: Yes.
Q2: Also yes. It's just like making an attack roll, but at range. (NOTE: Am away from books, may be misremembering, listen to Keld)