Graceful Savage Barbarian (3.5 help)

[Sutrahariel]

Hello to all, I thank all of those that are generous enough to view my humble little thread of questions.

Now onto the crunch: I have had an idea for a long time that involves a savage barbarian that has both feminine grace as well as the killing power of natural and/or primitive weapons. Build wise I had a loose idea: A Feral Wild Elf Barbarian that would go into some kind of Prc.

I am asking you all your opinions, ideas, and advice that you would wish to share. Prcs, Feats, Variants, e.t.c. I am open minded, and the only things I will say no to is Incarnum and psionics because of personal preference against them. Other then that I am open to any thoughts that you could possibly have, unless its really out there or if the idea is to far away from my initial vision of the character.

[Paulus]

Hello to all, I thank all of those that are generous enough to view my humble little thread of questions.

Now onto the crunch: I have had an idea for a long time that involves a savage barbarian that has both feminine grace as well as the killing power of natural and/or primitive weapons. Build wise I had a loose idea: A Feral Wild Elf Barbarian that would go into some kind of Prc.

I am asking you all your opinions, ideas, and advice that you would wish to share. Prcs, Feats, Variants, e.t.c. I am open minded, and the only things I will say no to is Incarnum and psionics because of personal preference against them. Other then that I am open to any thoughts that you could possibly have, unless its really out there or if the idea is to far away from my initial vision of the character.

Fist of the Forest from Complete Champion would be something to look into. Prereqs are a bit world driven, but most DMs will over look it.

Wildrunner from Races of the Wild is also something to look into.

[Fishy]

There are some pretty interesting options for Barbarians in the Urban Class Features web enhancement thingie. Ferocity works like a Rage that gives you bonuses to dex instead of con, and other movement themed goodies, and the Streetfighter substitutions eventually let you do neat and battle-dancerish things with Charge.

There's also the Whirling Frenzy variant from UA, which you can mix in with some Ranger to get a ridiculous amount of attacks. Another of my favorites is the 18-CHA barbarian, with the Reactive Rage/Intimidating Rage/Imperious Command combo for fake Celerity. If you're not married to the idea of a wild elf barbarian, Half Orc Paragon is an interesting way to get some variant of Rage but still be Lawful, which lets you mix in Monk levels for more attacks, or Paladin levels for Charisma-based goodies.

[herrhauptmann]

I'd recommend reading some of Robert Howard's Conan the Cimmerian. Specifically find the stories with Valeria in them. The Valeria from the first movie has some similarities, but the one from the book is better.

[KellKheraptis]

Got ya covered. If Eberron is allowed, you'll love this. Be a Valenar elf. Go Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Revenant Blade 5/Frenzied Berserker 10. Your double scimitar now counts as a two handed weapon for both ends, and gets full Str. Pick up the usual culprits, and enjoy +100 damage on every attack without losing BAB the first two rounds, not counting Str bonus at all.

[daggaz]

Got ya covered. If Eberron is allowed, you'll love this. Be a Valenar elf. Go Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Revenant Blade 5/Frenzied Berserker 10. Your double scimitar now counts as a two handed weapon for both ends, and gets full Str. Pick up the usual culprits, and enjoy +100 damage on every attack without losing BAB the first two rounds, not counting Str bonus at all.

Regardless of how this build works, how does it have anything to do with the OP's request? Feminine grace and the killing power of natural or primitive weapons?

[KellKheraptis]

Regardless of how this build works, how does it have anything to do with the OP's request? Feminine grace and the killing power of natural or primitive weapons?

Feminine grace = elven, using a graceful weapon

Primitive = you're a frickin' Frenzied Berserker! You may be graceful and precise as all get out, but you're still foaming at the mouth!

[Keld Denar]

TOTEMIST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feral? Check!
Natural Weapons? Check check check check check check!
Graceful? Check!
Feminine? ...can be? Check!

What else do ya want? Only drawback is that MoI requires about 2 days of dedicated reading and pagemarking to learn how use effectively...

[woodenbandman]

What about that Races of the Wild elf prestige class? From a flavor standpoint, that is perfect for you. That Valenar suggesetion is also nice.

[Sutrahariel]

TOTEMIST!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feral? Check!
Natural Weapons? Check check check check check check!
Graceful? Check!
Feminine? ...can be? Check!

What else do ya want? Only drawback is that MoI requires about 2 days of dedicated reading and pagemarking to learn how use effectively...

I have an understanding of the totemist to an extent, and it is a very good class. However I choose not to use the incarnum book for any reason, simply because it never truly fits my character idea. Srry, and thank you for giving up ur time for little ol' me :P

Got ya covered. If Eberron is allowed, you'll love this. Be a Valenar elf. Go Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/Revenant Blade 5/Frenzied Berserker 10. Your double scimitar now counts as a two handed weapon for both ends, and gets full Str. Pick up the usual culprits, and enjoy +100 damage on every attack without losing BAB the first two rounds, not counting Str bonus at all.

That...is a really awesome build ^^ Sadly I do not think that making a class that powerful would be fair to the other possible players. Thank you though, you have a very creative mind :)

There are some pretty interesting options for Barbarians in the Urban Class Features web enhancement thingie. Ferocity works like a Rage that gives you bonuses to dex instead of con, and other movement themed goodies, and the Streetfighter substitutions eventually let you do neat and battle-dancerish things with Charge.

There's also the Whirling Frenzy variant from UA, which you can mix in with some Ranger to get a ridiculous amount of attacks. Another of my favorites is the 18-CHA barbarian, with the Reactive Rage/Intimidating Rage/Imperious Command combo for fake Celerity. If you're not married to the idea of a wild elf barbarian, Half Orc Paragon is an interesting way to get some variant of Rage but still be Lawful, which lets you mix in Monk levels for more attacks, or Paladin levels for Charisma-based goodies.

Many great ideas indeed! I'm taking these all into consideration, so its possible that I might use some of these if the build works out. Thank you for the assistance :D

Fist of the Forest from Complete Champion would be something to look into. Prereqs are a bit world driven, but most DMs will over look it.

Wildrunner from Races of the Wild is also something to look into.

Fist of the Forest is sort of iffy to me, though in itself its a great class. What I reeeeeeaaaaalllyyy love is the Wildrunner prc!! It fits exceedingly well, and fits in with the elves. Thank you very much for your contribution ^^

With all of this in mind, I'm most likely going to go with a feral wild elf spelless Ranger/Wildrunner build. I'll be using the claws the most, and be a tracker and the like. Now then...what are the peoples thoughts for Feats, items, backup weapons, e.t.c?

[dspeyer]

Dervish seems the natural class here. Combine it with whirling frenzy and you can dance amidst your enemies dual-wielding scimitars and slashing them to bits. Mix in some ranger and scout for skirmish damage. If you post level and stats, I can put together an actual build.

Now to convince your DM that perform is a class skill for barbarians (they're illiterate! It has to be!)....

[Keld Denar]

My concern if you run Ranger/Wildrunner is that you won't have a source of bonus damage while TWFing. Rangers get a few knowledge skills (Nature and Local, IIRC), so picking up Knowledge Devotion (CChampion) early will help you boost damage/hit a little and give you a Knowledge skill of your choice (Religion if you anticipate undead, Planes if you anticpate outsiders, Dungeoneering if you expect underdark/abberations or Arcana for Magical Beasts and Constructs). If you duel wield short swords, a 1-2 dip in Swordsage after Ranger but before Wildrunner will allow you to take the feat Shadow Blade and either give you 20% miss chance when you move or the ability to flank when you are adacent to friends. Also, Champion of Corellion Whateverhisnameis for 2 levels mixed in with your Wildrunner levels will give you +dex to damage again.

Again, you don't have to do all of these ideas, but I'd look at doing at least something to give you more than just weapon damage + a little bit of str, or you are gonna find yourself woefully ineffective at mid levels and higher.

I'd suggest posting a level by level skeleton build with feats. That gives us something concrete to work with and make suggestions on. Also, what books and material do you have to work with?

[Talya]

Hello to all, I thank all of those that are generous enough to view my humble little thread of questions.

Now onto the crunch: I have had an idea for a long time that involves a savage barbarian that has both feminine grace as well as the killing power of natural and/or primitive weapons. Build wise I had a loose idea: A Feral Wild Elf Barbarian that would go into some kind of Prc.

I am asking you all your opinions, ideas, and advice that you would wish to share. Prcs, Feats, Variants, e.t.c. I am open minded, and the only things I will say no to is Incarnum and psionics because of personal preference against them. Other then that I am open to any thoughts that you could possibly have, unless its really out there or if the idea is to far away from my initial vision of the character.

OMG...I played this character a few years ago. Only got to level 4, though, and the DM sorta houseruled the barbarian a bit, though...

[Sutrahariel]

let see...

Spoiler

Show

Feral Wild Elf: +2 Dex -2 Int from wild Elf, +2 Str -2 Dex +2 Con -4 Int from Feral Template

level
1 = Feral LA
2 = No Spells Varient Ranger
3 = No Spells Varient Ranger
4 = No Spells Varient Ranger
5 = No Spells Varient Ranger
6 = No Spells Varient Ranger
7 = Wild Runner
8 = No Spells Varient Ranger
9 = Wild Runner
10 = Wild Runner
11 = Wild Runner
12 = Wild Runner

Feats: Track (bonus), Two weapon Fighting (Combat Style), Endurance (bonus), Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Combat Style), Weapon Finesse (1st), Natural Bond (2), Improved Natural Attack (claw) (3)

Claws equal light weapons, 2d6 damage each. can use Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, and Rend. Can track via Scent.

I haven't rolled the stats, seeing as how I plan on maybe using this character in future campaigns that I might find. I CAN however just use the basic stats: 15 14 13 12 10 8

Str 12 (10)
Dex 15 (15)
Con 15 (13)
Int 8 (14)
Wis 14 (12)
Cha 8 (8)

Heres a rough skeleton that is open for thought. I only used three feats, and their open for change. I chose to stop at 12 because most campaigns I've played do not go higher (and because I'm lazy >.<)

there you go, talk now before I cry :'(

UPDATE: I have nearly every book as either a book or pdf. I do not have any dragon maginzines however, nor do I have many setting books

[Bang]

It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding to its monster Hit Dice

---
And no Ferocity/Whirling Frenzy?

Also, the Wild Shape Ranger gets Fast Movement at level 1, if that's your thing.

[Sutrahariel]

I understand, If at some point I do go beyond lv. 12 I will. Also....

Special Attacks: A feral creature gains additional special
attacks depending on its Hit Dice, as shown on the table
below. It gains the special attacks indicated in the row corresponding
to its monster Hit Dice, plus all those in previous
rows. If the base creature possesses a duplicate ability,
the feral creature uses whichever version of the ability is
better.

It says both HD and Monster HD. I understand perfectly how that balances the template, just a thought on the possible argument behind it

[Keld Denar]

I'd look into getting a non-handed weapons (Check A&EG and Complete Scoundrel) that you can use as a primary weapons and then utilize your natural attacks as secondary natural attacks.

You'll have something like:

Primary +X/+Y/+Z with 1x Str
Secondary +X/+Y/+Z with .5x Str
Claw +X-5 with .5x Str
Claw +X-5 with .5x Str
Bite +X-5 with .5x Str
Rake +X with .5x Str
Rake +X with .5x Str

I'm pretty certain. If you take Multiattack instead of Natural Bond, you're Claw/Claw/Bite routine will be made at -2 instead of -5, which is an effective +3 to hit with them.

Another feat to look into is Rapid Strike from the Draconomicon. You take it with a "pair" of natural weapons, like claws, and it essentially gives you your 2nd iterative attacks with both claws. Improved Rapid Strike gives your 3rd.

[Hurlbut]

Feminine grace and killing power, hm sound like the panther. Or any good stalking/ambush cats. Snow Leopard's my favorite.

[Darrin]

My concern if you run Ranger/Wildrunner is that you won't have a source of bonus damage while TWFing.

Hunter's Eye (2nd level ranger spell, PHBII) could give a bit of bonus damage.

Scout 4/Ranger 6/Wildrunner 10 + Swift Hunter? Unfortunately, only 3d6 Skirmish. Mystic Ranger 6 would have access to Hunter's Eye.

There's also a way to pick up Swift Hunter without any Scout levels: Ranger 4/Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Highland Stalker 4/Ranger +11, but that veers somewhat sharply away from the OP.

[Person_Man]

What level are you starting at, and what level do you estimate you will you be finishing at? I ask because a lot of Barbarian builds that are strong at low-mid levels suck at mid-high levels.

[Cieyrin]

Another feat to look into is Rapid Strike from the Draconomicon. You take it with a "pair" of natural weapons, like claws, and it essentially gives you your 2nd iterative attacks with both claws. Improved Rapid Strike gives your 3rd.

Only problem with Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike are they have type requirements. You have to be aberration, dragon, elemental, magical beast or plant to take them, which stymies many a PC from taking them. To do that, you have to either start as one (commonly through Elan from the XPH or the Volodni from Unapproachable East) or going through a transformative PRC (Dragon Disciple and Primeval are the ones that come to mind). Not really feasible for this build, either way.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.