^3.5^ Exotic Class Features as Feats

[Deth Muncher]

Most of you who clicked on this will already be thinking "But wait! That already happens! You fool! You foolish fool!" But just hang on to yer britches for a moment, okay?

So. Every PC I have in my campaign is a core class: I've got a Paladin, Ranger, Sorceror, Cleric, Druid, and Bard, and except for the Druid (who's playing a Dragontouched Elf from Dragon Magic), everything else is core. Now, while a core only game might be some people's cup of tea, it surely isn't mine, and I fully intend on including all sorts of fun things from other books. Now, think for a moment. If you, a PC Ranger, sees a 17 year old girl who exclaims that she could "Kill you with [her] mind," wouldn't YOU want to do that? Which is, thus, why feats were added to allow people to do just that. What I need to know from you is what they are. :/ I'm thinking of feats for the following:
-ToB Jank (I think the feat is called "Martial Somesuch" or somthing to that effect)
-Psionics (There's an "Unlock Mind" or something that gives you a power pool and a power, yeah?)
-Incarnum (This is like "Bind Soulmeld" or something like that)
-ToM Jank (Not AS worried here, as I'm not going to have a bunch of Truenamers running around, but Binders perhaps, and I think that's "Bind Vestige?")

That's all that comes to mind at the moment, but I'm thinking there must be ones for classes that aren't like that - for example, is there a feat to give you a Dragon Shaman/Marshal's Aura?

As well, what about some Templates (acquirable, that is) that grant access to these abilities? For example, I know Phrenic gets you Psionics.

But lo! Merely asking you all things that I could Google on my own is not purely my purpose! My other question is, do you think it's okay for the PCs to learn them via training from other adventurers for MONEY?! (Obviously not the templates, but like, the technique granting feats.) As in, the PCs run into a trio of ToB-ers, they pal around for a bit, and the Cleric goes "Hey Crusader, I really like that one thing you did, with the killing people. Could you teach me?" And the Crusader goes "Why certainly my friend! But these services don't come cheap, as we're also a group of greedy bastages an adventuring party, so I'll have to charge you X."

[SinsI]

My other question is, do you think it's okay for the PCs to learn them via training from other adventurers for MONEY?! (Obviously not the templates, but like, the technique granting feats.) As in, the PCs run into a trio of ToB-ers, they pal around for a bit, and the Cleric goes "Hey Crusader, I really like that one thing you did, with the killing people. Could you teach me?" And the Crusader goes "Why certainly my friend! But these services don't come cheap, as we're also a group of greedy bastages an adventuring party, so I'll have to charge you X."

There are items that emulate some of the feats so I think there's no big harm if you get the feat version for the same price.

[Glimbur]

If you really want to encourage the PC's to pick up weird powers, let the bought feats not count as normal feats. You'd need to put a different cap on how many they could have... or not and let them die due to not having level appropriate gear because they have five maneuvers, bind as a level three binder, and six soulmelds.

Maybe Level/3 would be a reasonable limit on bought "feats". That makes them have the capacity to nearly double their feats... with some limits and significant costs.

[Nero24200]

Just an FYI, the Psionic feat you're thinking of is Wild Talent, though it doesn't grant psionic powers, it only allows you to count as psionic (meaning you can take psionic feats). While it does provide alot of interesting options, it doesn't grant actual powers.

Martial Study lets you learn a single manouver, however it has a built-in limit that it can only be taken three times.

If you're eager to have such class features, I might go as far as to expand the options (for instance, add in a psionic feat that does grant a power, or feats to gain shadowcaster mysteries and auras etc).

Another option, as someone pointed above, is to maybe provide such options a different way. Maybe grant an additional feat every X level, but it must be one of these newer feats - though check with your players first, having such additional powers might just seem like extra and unneeded book-work for them.

[Darrin]

Just an FYI, the Psionic feat you're thinking of is Wild Talent, though it doesn't grant psionic powers, it only allows you to count as psionic (meaning you can take psionic feats). While it does provide alot of interesting options, it doesn't grant actual powers.

Hidden Talent, which is hidden in a sidebar somewhere in the XPH, is similar to Wild Talent but it *does* give you a level 1 power. It's listed as an "optional" rule, but heck, everything outside of Core could be considered optional.

Martial Study lets you learn a single manouver, however it has a built-in limit that it can only be taken three times.

Martial Study can only be taken three times, yes, but Martial Stance has no such limitation. And you're more likely to get more use out of the stances, since those can be "always on" and you don't need to recover them. You can add more strikes/counters/boosts with the Crown of the White Raven items or Martial Scripts if need be. The biggest drawback to Martial Study is that if you have no Adept levels, you have no recovery method and your maneuvers can only be used once per encounter. However, Adaptive Style may get around that. Another good way to pick up Martial Study/Stance feats temporarily is a Wand of Heroics.

For Incarnum, yes, you can take Shape Soulmeld and Open Least/Lesser/Greater Chakra, but unless you're trying to optimize something very specific (such as a Hellfire Warlock + Strongheart Vest), it's too feat intensive to do anything impressive. The biggest exception here is the Chameleon PrC who uses his daily bonus feat on Shape Soulmeld. Assuming you have a high Constitution, you can shape up to 10 soulmelds and gain the basic benefits, since the soulmelds stay shaped until dispelled or unshaped.

Invocations... can't be acquired via feats, you have to dip into either Warlock or Dragonfire Adept to start with. You can pick up more invocations later with the Extra Invocation feat, but you need access to Lesser or higher level invocations to pick up more that way.

Draconic Auras can be acquired after character level 3 via the Draconic Aura feat (Dragon Magic). Never heard of this one used much, though... the Vigor aura (PHBII) is probably worth it, but after that I'm not sure you'd want to grab anything else. Unfortunately, you can't grab Marshall auras via this feat unless your DM handwaves all auras being considered draconic or all aura-using classes having access to everybody else's auras.

For ToM, I think only binder vestiges are available via feats. But unfortunately, the only powers available via feats are the really lame ones. If you want to mess around with vestiges, a one-level dip is so much infinitely better than mucking around with the Bind Vestige feats.

Hmm... ok, I checked, and it looks like you could pick up Truespeak and Utterances without taking levels of Truenamer, but if you could ever explain why you would want to do such a thing, it would be an epic work of monumental cleverness or absurdity.

[Deth Muncher]

Hmm... ok, I checked, and it looks like you could pick up Truespeak and Utterances without taking levels of Truenamer, but if you could ever explain why you would want to do such a thing, it would be an epic work of monumental cleverness or absurdity.

Factotum cheese? :P

But anyway. So yeah. All of these look good, and it's totally what I'm looking for.

But back on the "Buying Feats" option, I think I kinda like the sound of level/3 for how many they could have. At this point, if they met up with people, they'd all be able to get an extra feat, which would be handy for them for sure.

[Curmudgeon]

Hidden Talent, which is hidden in a sidebar somewhere in the XPH, is similar to Wild Talent but it *does* give you a level 1 power. It's listed as an "optional" rule, but heck, everything outside of Core could be considered optional.

Bottom of page 67. You get 2 power points to use on this single power.

[Draz74]

Factotum cheese? :P

Nothing cheesy about it. The Utterance-learning feats aren't good enough to be considered cheese.

Draconic Auras can be acquired after character level 3 via the Draconic Aura feat (Dragon Magic). Never heard of this one used much, though... the Vigor aura (PHBII) is probably worth it, but after that I'm not sure you'd want to grab anything else.

Technically, IIRC, you can't actually get the Vigor aura via the feat. I don't remember why, but the book lists some kind of restriction as to what auras are available and what aren't. However, this can still be a very worthwhile feat -- for a character that's already Dragonblooded somehow, that is. (Such as a character with Dragontouched.) For example, the Senses Aura, eventually, is like giving every party member Improved Initiative and Alertness x2. Considering you get all that for one feat, and Improved Initiative is considered a decent feat in its own right ... yeah.

[Curmudgeon]

Draconic Auras can be acquired after character level 3 via the Draconic Aura feat (Dragon Magic). Never heard of this one used much, though... the Vigor aura (PHBII) is probably worth it, but after that I'm not sure you'd want to grab anything else.

You're mixing up two different things here. The Draconic Aura feat (Dragon Magic, pages 86-87) has a specified list of 10 different auras that feat can provide, and "Vigor" isn't on the list. The Dragon Shaman's Draconic Aura (Su) class feature (Players Handbook II, page 13) has a specified list of 7 different Dragon Shaman auras, including "Vigor". The feat doesn't grant Dragon Shaman auras, even though they have similar names.

[Darrin]

You're mixing up two different things here. The Draconic Aura feat (Dragon Magic, pages 86-87) has a specified list of 10 different auras that feat can provide, and "Vigor" isn't on the list.

I'm probably reading too much into this, but I don't see anything in the feat description that says you are restricted to the 10 different auras on page 87. The feat refers you to page 86, where the different types of draconic auras are discussed (including Dragon Shaman, where it says draconic auras were introduced), and then 10 are listed at the end of the section. I don't see anything on pages 86-87 that specifically says, "you can only choose these next 10 auras, even though we just mentioned some other classes that get several others". But then again, I don't see anything by RAW that says you can take Dragon Shaman auras with the Draconic Aura feat. On the gripping hand, I'm not sure a lot of DMs would belabor the point.

Hmm. Now that I read through it again:

"Members of certain classes and some creatures, however, can gain the ability to project a draconic aura from different sources."

That seems to imply those "different sources" are not valid for the Draconic Aura feat.

[Curmudgeon]

"Members of certain classes and some creatures, however, can gain the ability to project a draconic aura from different sources."

That seems to imply those "different sources" are not valid for the Draconic Aura feat.

That's the way I read it.

(Nice use of "the gripping hand", by the way.)

[taltamir]

isn't there a systematic way someone made for creating custom classes with whatever is in the core? every single aspect was taken apart and given a numerical value, you use those to buy class features.

[Curmudgeon]

There have been some attempts in that direction, but nothing definitive came of it, because the task is too difficult. Spellcasting is an obvious example; it starts out as something that's pretty weak, but eventually becomes the dominant part of the game. How do you put a value on that class feature?