So we heard you liked Lances?

[oxinabox]

So we heard you liked Lances? So we put a lance in your other hand, so you can lance people, while you lance people.

does this work?
Lion totem Barabrian (for pounce)
TWF, over sized twf (lance is one handed if your mounted)
Spirited charger (+mounted combat, Ride-By Attack)

I was thinking human Barb 1 Fighter 2, psiWarrior 2, plenty of feats there, 2 spare feats (si this can be done at lvl 3), if i counteded right,
so weapon focus lance, weapon specialty lance.
x3 or x4 (Depedning if the multiplication in dnd rules are being used)
on every attack make after a charge,
which depending on reading of rideby attack should try to be all of them.


lvl 8 feat gets improved critical, like any decent TWFing build

[Mushroom Ninja]

It's not bad, but I think you're better off with one lance and power attack.

[ericgrau]

It's not bad, but I think you're better off with one lance and power attack.

What if you have a source of sneak attack damage... with a lance.

[Mushroom Ninja]

What if you have a source of sneak attack damage... with a lance.

1) That would be the most epic sneak attack of all time.

2) Although power attack would probably be better, I would still dual-wield sneak-attacking lances because it would be so frickin' awesome.

[Demons_eye]

I've seen this build alot and I always think: What if I had 3 spear-men....

Spoiler

Show

3 level 5 Spartans Barbarian1/Fighter4 or Barbarian1/Warblade4 CR8

Elite Array

Spartan
Male CN Human Barbarian1/Fighter4 or Barbarian1/Warblade4
Level 5, Init +0/+6, HP 40, Speed 40
AC 20, Touch 12, Flat-footed 18,
Fort +5, Ref +0, Will +0
Base Attack Bonus 5
MW Spear +9 (1d6+2, x2)
MW Shield +8 (1d6+2, x2)
MW Chain shirt (+5 Armor)
MW Shield, Heavy (+3 Armor)
Abilities Str 15, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8

Feats Weapon focus Spear, Improved Shield Bash, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Backstab, Formation Expert

Flaws for Improved init and Warchanter

[Lapak]

What if you have a source of sneak attack damage... with a lance.

Step One: Get a mount with good stealth skills.
Step Two: Get someone to distract them.
Step Three: Charge!

I kind of want to do this now, with one lance OR two.

[sambo.]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1st ed (just after original Unearthed Arcana), our ~lvl6'ish (can't remember) party paladin charged Tiamat (Chromatic Dragon) and managed a One Hit Kill with a heavy lance aboard his pally warhorse.

[Radiun]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 1st ed (just after original Unearthed Arcana), our ~lvl6'ish (can't remember) party paladin charged Tiamat (Chromatic Dragon) and managed a One Hit Kill with a heavy lance aboard his pally warhorse.

This is
1) Awesome
2) A fitting image
3) Instantly makes that Lance a named artifact.

[sambo.]

This is
1) Awesome
2) A fitting image
3) Instantly makes that Lance a named artifact.

1st ed Tiamat only had ~68 hp from memory.

but still, a lvl 6 PC that one-shots a bloody lesser goddess just aint right, whichever way you look at it.

that pally got even ruder not long after when he got his grubby, grubby hands on a Holy Avenger sword (in 1ed, a pally with a holy avenger was desperatly and seriously rude).

[Carden]

My advice? Add in Scout for skirmish, as it will always apply on a charge.

[Grumman]

1) That would be the most epic sneak attack of all time.

I prefer sneak attack with Meteor Swarms.

My advice? Add in Scout for skirmish, as it will always apply on a charge.

Skirmish doesn't count mounted movement.

[oxinabox]

I've seen this build alot...

I figured iot was either impossible, or had been done multiple tiems before. most simplish builds have

[PhoenixRivers]

Pounce won't work while mounted. The issue isn't action availability, the charge action is taken by the mount. You can take a full attack.

The issue is hard wired into mounted combat rules. When you move more than 5 feet while mounted, you are limited to a single melee attack.

[Danin]

Skirmish doesn't count mounted movement.

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules...asses-Base.pdf - Page 160. Light cavalry variant.

[Cieyrin]

Step One: Get a mount with good stealth skills.
Step Two: Get someone to distract them.
Step Three: Charge!

I kind of want to do this now, with one lance OR two.

You don't really need the stealthy mount, actually, provided you have your character take levels in Wild Plains Outrider, as then the mount uses your ranks in Hide and Move Silently.

Wild Plains Outrider also solves the full mounted attack, as the capstone ability at 3rd allows you to do so, though only after a move action, which isn't exactly a charge but whatevers.

[jiriku]

Difficult terrain will be your bane until you can get a flying mount, since it will ruin your charges. Are there any good land-based mount-compatible creatures that ignore difficult terrain?

[Fishy]

1) Acquire Pounce.
2) Acquire Familiar and/or Psicrystal.
3) Max ranks in Ride.
4) Familiar sits on your head, wields a tiny tiny lance.
5) Charge + Full Attack + Toothpick in the eyeball?

[Faulty]

How do you propose a small crystal hold a lance?

[Sinfire Titan]

How do you propose a small crystal hold a lance?

Excessive applications of Sovereign Glue.

[Faulty]

Excessive applications of Sovereign Glue.

Might as well just through it at your enemies.

1d2 piercing damage, baby.

[woodenbandman]

Pounce won't work while mounted. The issue isn't action availability, the charge action is taken by the mount. You can take a full attack.

The issue is hard wired into mounted combat rules. When you move more than 5 feet while mounted, you are limited to a single melee attack.

I also hold this idea to be true.

[Another_Poet]

x3 or x4 (Depedning if the multiplication in dnd rules are being watched)

I just have to say, while I love lances and I love the build, this line is just wrong. You should follow the multiplication rules whether your DM notices or not. Cheating is double plus lame.

Unless you meant your DM has a house rule, in which case I take back my words, but it doesn't sound like it.

ap

[Prime32]

If you want to sneak attack while mounted, have either your character or your mount take the Martial Stance (island of blades) feat. As long as you and an ally are adjacent to the enemy you count as flanking, which means you can sneak attack while charging.

[Siosilvar]

1st ed Tiamat only had ~68 hp from memory.

but still, a lvl 6 PC that one-shots a bloody lesser goddess just aint right, whichever way you look at it.

that pally got even ruder not long after when he got his grubby, grubby hands on a Holy Avenger sword (in 1ed, a pally with a holy avenger was desperatly and seriously rude).

It was 128.

Hmm...
18 max damage vs. Large * 2 charging * 2 crit is only 72 damage... That's 56 short. 19 Strength nets you a +7 (28), Specialization +2 (8) (Paladins can't double specialize). You're still... 20 damage short. Was it a +5 lance?

[oxinabox]

I just have to say, while I love lances and I love the build, this line is just wrong. You should follow the multiplication rules whether your DM notices or not. Cheating is double plus lame.

sorry that was a mistype.
I didn't mean to imply you should break the rules when you dm isn't watching.
I ment ot say being used.
I'm seen dm's who take a look at the multiplication rule (after being prompted by a player who knew the rules) and hte dm's like WTF? no, multiplcation is multiplication, i'll have none of this addition in muy games.

[Darrin]

I'm seen dm's who take a look at the multiplication rule (after being prompted by a player who knew the rules) and hte dm's like WTF? no, multiplcation is multiplication, i'll have none of this addition in muy games.

If you think that's confusing, throw the Leap Attack Errata at them and see if they ask you what you're smoking and why aren't you sharing?

[Another_Poet]

sorry that was a mistype.
I didn't mean to imply you should break the rules when you dm isn't watching.
I ment ot say being used.
I'm seen dm's who take a look at the multiplication rule (after being prompted by a player who knew the rules) and hte dm's like WTF? no, multiplcation is multiplication, i'll have none of this addition in muy games.

Ah, then my apologies for the misplaced scolding :)

[Lapak]

It was 128.

Hmm...
18 max damage vs. Large * 2 charging * 2 crit is only 72 damage... That's 56 short. 19 Strength nets you a +7 (28), Specialization +2 (8) (Paladins can't double specialize). You're still... 20 damage short. Was it a +5 lance?

Belt of Storm Giant Strength, maybe? Paladins couldn't specialize back then, though, IIRC.
18 + 12 (STR) + 5 (magic) * 2 * 2 = 140, which is enough to kill almost anything in 1st edition.

[Coidzor]

Pounce won't work while mounted. The issue isn't action availability, the charge action is taken by the mount. You can take a full attack.

The issue is hard wired into mounted combat rules. When you move more than 5 feet while mounted, you are limited to a single melee attack.

Unless your ride is high enough that you don't have to use your move action to command your mount.

[Darrin]

Unless your ride is high enough that you don't have to use your move action to command your mount.

Doesn't matter. If your mount moves while you're riding it, it counts as movement for the rider. You can guide the mount with your knees as a free action, which means you still have a move and standard action available, but your mount's movement counts as you moving if you're trying to do something like a full attack or a 5' step. You could possibly use a free dismount after your mount has moved, at which point you might be able to get away with a full attack because you're no longer mounted, but there's still that "can only make a single melee attack" clause to contend with, so you'll probably need some friendly hand-waving from the DM.

Hmm... ok, let's see if there's another loophole to exploit here...

The one-attack restriction does not apply to the mount, which may have pounce. If my mount has multiple arms, and is carrying multiple lances, can they make a full attack and get double damage, since the mount counts as a "mounted character"?

Now let's say I'm a thri-kreen with a psi-crystal or familiar, and I've got ranks in ride. I can tell my familiar to "ride" me as a mount (and if they had the Mounted Combat feat, they could make a ride check to negate one hit in combat per round). Per the charge rules, "A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge."

Another possible loophole... what happens if we add Bloodstorm Blade for Thunderous Throw? The Mounted Combat rules say, "You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving." However, it's not clear if a charge would count... it's mentioned that this is possible during a double move or a run action, but if your full attack counts as both ranged and melee attacks... can you charge + pounce + thunderous throw?