Meleeing [d20 Modern]

[averagejoe]

I'm basically wondering how to make an effective melee guy in d20 modern (core book only.) This is without going unarmed (though say so if that is more effective) since little support for melee characters seem to be offered. It almost seems better to start out with the Dex Hero, for the first four levels at least (lose 1 BaB, gain 2 AC, +2 skill points/level, and better talents) and then go to strong hero, as none of the advanced classes seem to offer much in the way of melee-ing. The soldier, maybe, but I've been trained by 3.5 to think that power attack is awesome, and therefore BaB is necessary. However, modern PA is like the 3.0 PA, where it offers 1 for 1 no matter what. Is it still a good feat to pick up? Is making a two hander more effective?

For clarity, this is a theoretical discussion. I'm not actually making a modern character, so no "Convince your DM to use 3.5 PA" type shenanigans.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[PinkysBrain]

TWF with Three-section staff and all the bonus damage available from Strong Hero/Soldier seems the best you can do damage wise on a full attack, but it's probably not worth it to sink that many feats/resources into it.

[Dhavaer]

In Modern, I think the most important thing in combat is consistently hitting the massive damage threshold. Weapon Specialisation, Power Attack, Melee Smash etc are all good ways of doing that. If you can average 15 damage without PA you're probably doing good, unless it's a UA game with minotaurs and toxiderms everywhere. After that, go for lots of attacks, to increase the chance they roll a 1 on their save. So Fast/Strong/Soldier would be a pretty good build for that. I'd prefer to take Strong at first level to pick up CMA, but I'm just paranoid like that.

[averagejoe]

What about fighting against things immune to critical hits (and thus massive damage)?

[Siosilvar]

What about fighting against things immune to critical hits (and thus massive damage)?

You're hitting multiple times per round for 15 damage a hit, are you not?

[averagejoe]

You're hitting multiple times per round for 15 damage a hit, are you not?

Yes, but I mean if your strategy isn't just to get a certain amount of damage to force that fort save, what gives you best overall average damage? TWF seems like a more viable option seeing as PA only scales by half, especially since it seems like your average modern enemy is less mobile than I'm used to in DnD, but I'm not the best optimizer and may be overlooking something.

[Dhavaer]

It's also worth noting that two-handed weapons don't multiply your strength bonus by 1.5 as they do in D&D. If you're a Strong/Soldier, and thus getting damage bonuses from Weapon Spec and Melee Smash, two weapon fighting is probably the way to go.

What crit-immune things are you expecting to come across, btw? Undead-heavy UA/SC campaign? Vehicles? Robot war Future campaign?

[Rixx]

Talk with your DM about houseruling in the D&D versions of the melee feats (I.E. variable Power Attack, Weapon Finesse that applies to all light melee weapons, etc.). d20 Modern as it is is a little outdated in that regard, and heavily favors ranged combat in a way that seems almost arbitrary sometimes. (I understand that realistically, ranged combat with guns is more effective than melee combat with swords, but the way they represent this in the game seems to be my crippling the melee feats.)

[averagejoe]

It's also worth noting that two-handed weapons don't multiply your strength bonus by 1.5 as they do in D&D. If you're a Strong/Soldier, and thus getting damage bonuses from Weapon Spec and Melee Smash, two weapon fighting is probably the way to go.

What crit-immune things are you expecting to come across, btw? Undead-heavy UA/SC campaign? Vehicles? Robot war Future campaign?

Not really expecting anything, just curious. I suppose a zombie campaign would be most up the alley of my group, but nothing of that sort is in the works. I was tossing around the idea of running a modern or future campaign and was curious about the dynamics of the system as written.

Talk with your DM about houseruling in the D&D versions of the melee feats (I.E. variable Power Attack, Weapon Finesse that applies to all light melee weapons, etc.). d20 Modern as it is is a little outdated in that regard, and heavily favors ranged combat in a way that seems almost arbitrary sometimes. (I understand that realistically, ranged combat with guns is more effective than melee combat with swords, but the way they represent this in the game seems to be my crippling the melee feats.)

For clarity, this is a theoretical discussion. I'm not actually making a modern character, so no "Convince your DM to use 3.5 PA" type shenanigans.

[Zincorium]

Well, there's really no doubt that guns are supposed to have an advantage over melee, and they're way easier to cheese out early than melee weapons are. Dexterity is also a lot more important to defense in d20 modern than D&D, so even a melee character can't afford to drop it down very far in favor of strength.

The last D20 modern game I was in, I played a strong hero/shadow slayer wielding a three section staff. With the added enhancement bonus of shadow slayer against the majority of opponents we were facing, it worked fairly well, but the ranged characters probably could have wiped the floor with me if they'd opened up the Weapons Locker book that sat collecting dust on the table.

While it's kind of wonky to have your character using a chainsaw, it does have a strong possibility of going over the damage threshold on a consistent basis, whereas TWF with a three section staff will only rarely go over the 15 points but will get you much better continuous damage when you're able to do full attacks. If you're willing to go martial artist, unarmed can end up being really nifty, but at the beginning of the game it is decidedly underwhelming.