builds for stats: 3,3,3,3,3,18

[oxinabox]

So we had the 0 pt buy, and the resaults were (IIRC)
Vernerable Dwarf Druid, or what ever you want warlock.

What if you had the scores:
one 18 and the rest 3's. arrange as you will

Make an Uber SAD build.


i'm guessing either polymorphed wizard/sorcerer, or maybe something involving using wis for attacks, and damage and add widom to AC 3 times, use wis to dertermine HP (and maybe VoP, VoNV and other VoP), maybe cleric/monk/unarmed swordsage.

what SADness can people come up with?

[Milskidasith]

You play a wizard at epic levels.

Nothing. Matters.

[Rixx]

I'd go Sorcerer. He'd be a mentally disabled invalid, but he'd be a charming, powerful mentally disabled invalid.

[Cyclocone]

Gray Elf Wizard with Faerie Mysteries Initiate.
or
Necropolitan Gray Elf Wizard.

(And you put the 18 in INT, obviously)

[charl]

Some kind of spellcaster or manifester. A wizard would be the obvious way to go, but a sorc or psion could work as well.

[Vangor]

Druid. Three of those statistics do not matter at level four, and no matter how poor your statistics may be the full Fighter who is to all perceptions actually a Wolf is still as strong.

[oxinabox]

Druid. Three of those statistics do not matter at level four, and no matter how poor your statistics may be the full Fighter who is to all perceptions actually a Wolf is still as strong.

I don't think it works as well as polymorphed sorceerer.
Druids still need con for HP and wis for spell casting.

Polymorph gives you the HP of what you turned into.
so you just need cha

[sonofzeal]

Agreed on Polymorph. However, I'd advocate for a Cleric with the Transformation Domain. You can't generally cast spells while Polymorphed, so the extra BAB / Saves is going to help, plus the increased durability while not 'morphed. Czilla works just fine under those conditions.

[taltamir]

Czilla works under ANY conditions :)

[oxinabox]

Agreed on Polymorph. However, I'd advocate for a Cleric with the Transformation Domain. You can't generally cast spells while Polymorphed, so the extra BAB / Saves is going to help, plus the increased durability while not 'morphed. Czilla works just fine under those conditions.

while your charisma is going to be too low to full of full on mass DMM Persist, you could persist somethings.
You could also maybe go earth mephlet for some more CHA, Con, and a e sweet burrow speed.
But that would be touching LA races, so not fair, since you could aplly the lolth touched and /or mineral warrior template and now be back to full set of decent stats

btw
Is profiency needed for barding?
What about barding made using the armour for unusual creatures rules?

[Grumman]

I'd play a Warforged polymorph wizard or druid, and put the 18 into Con. The first thing I'd do is buy a Greater Metamagic Rod of Maximise, and pay a wizard, sorcerer or cleric to cast Awaken Construct on me using the rod.

Suddenly your 3, 3, 20, 3, 1, 1 stats have turned into 3, 3, 20, 18, 18, 18.

[taltamir]

make an evil wizard, call him raistilin.
dex 3: sickly and weak
str 3: as frail as they come
con 3: coughs blood all the time
wis 3: take on the very gods
cha 3: did you read the books?

:)

I'd play a Warforged polymorph wizard or druid, and put the 18 into Con. The first thing I'd do is buy a Greater Metamagic Rod of Maximise, and pay a wizard, sorcerer or cleric to cast Awaken Construct on me using the rod.

Suddenly your 3, 3, 20, 3, 1, 1 stats have turned into 3, 3, 20, 18, 18, 18.

what a cunning plan coming from something non sentient... btw... i love the maximized awaken! It is win!...

[Iku Rex]

Polymorph gives you the HP of what you turned into.

No it doesn't.

[sonofzeal]

while your charisma is going to be too low to full of full on mass DMM Persist, you could persist somethings.
You could also maybe go earth mephlet for some more CHA, Con, and a e sweet burrow speed.
But that would be touching LA races, so not fair, since you could aplly the lolth touched and /or mineral warrior template and now be back to full set of decent stats

btw
Is profiency needed for barding?
What about barding made using the armour for unusual creatures rules?

You don't even really need DMM:Persist to make this a good trade. A Cleric has pretty much all the options a Sorc would for keeping Polymorph up the whole time, so even without that extra one it should still be possible. I'd also avoid LA, since that'll put you even further behind in other ways and certainly delay the level at which your crummy stats stop mattering.

No it doesn't.

Polymorph is based off Alter Self, not off Alternate Form like Wildshape. Only Alternate Form has the text about not changing hp. Since Polymorph never refers to that text at any point, by RAW it doesn't have that exception and the normal rule about Con/HP applies

[Fishy]

The level 1 build is to put the 18 into Constitution and go Dragonfire Adept with Entangling Breath. Wear the heaviest armor you can carry with 3 str.

What's an attack roll?

[Vangor]

Druids still need con for HP and wis for spell casting.

The 18 would obviously be in Wisdom. Besides, the Druid is vastly more likely to survive until level four than the Wizard or Sorcerer is likely to survive until level seven. Unless survival is not considered in which a Wizard, Cleric, or Druid is equally capable.

[taltamir]

survival is simple, stay in the back, mooch of XP, and run away in danger. When people complain, tell them you are roleplaying your 3 cha.

[Iku Rex]

Polymorph is based off Alter Self, not off Alternate Form like Wildshape. Only Alternate Form has the text about not changing hp.

From alter self: "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

Hit points remain the same.

[Grumman]

what a cunning plan coming from something non sentient...

If you want a proper RP excuse, just say it was your owner/creator's idea. At WIS and CHA 1, you've probably got one. Then, once they boost your WIS and CHA to 18, you decide you don't want an owner any more and emancipate yourself.

[taltamir]

If you want a proper RP excuse, just say it was your owner/creator's idea. At WIS and CHA 1, you've probably got one. Then, once they boost your WIS and CHA to 18, you decide you don't want an owner any more and emancipate yourself.

in which case it becomes your backstory and you have created a character with 4 18s...
You have to start play with the scores above...

Speaking of, I now totally want to retire somewhere and cast this, daily, for a few years...

[Brigham]

Just a thought as far as the wizards go. How will you carry your supplies with a STR of 3?

I vaguely recall reading that a spellbook alone is 5 lbs.

[sonofzeal]

From alter self: "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

Hit points remain the same.

Ah, my mistake! I (evidently) thought that text was only under Alternate Form. Huh. I'm not going to get too worked up about it either way; the sheer number of polymorph/wildshape errata over the years was mind-numbing.

[Dairun Cates]

It's obvious. Charisma. ALWAYS put it in Charisma. Put your few skill points in perform and diplomacy. Become a traveling freak show. Charm people with your innocence and pure heart. Earn enough money to buy a Belt of Wonder. Get low stats up to nines. Realize importance of knowledge and study hard. Buy occassional manuals of health for book deals. Write memoirs, get rich, go adventuring at the age of 50 as a bard.

[taltamir]

Just a thought as far as the wizards go. How will you carry your supplies with a STR of 3?

I vaguely recall reading that a spellbook alone is 5 lbs.

a donkey? a wheelchair?

[Grumman]

in which case it becomes your backstory and you have created a character with 4 18s...
You have to start play with the scores above...

In case you didn't notice, the only advantage gained from the backstory is a simple, one sentence idea. You're still using your own WBL to put the idea into practice. Prohibiting such a thing would be like not letting the players buy magic items before the campaign starts.

[taltamir]

when their idea of "buy magic items" is getting a metamagic rod and a spell casting that gives their character 45 bonus attribute points (converting a 0 point buy char to a 63 point buy char... which allows buying down to 3), then yes that should not be allowed. especially not at the cost of "one sentence idea"... how much does one of those rods costs anyways? (and how much wealth exactly does a 1st lvl char have?)

How about you get +5 to all attributes from wishes by buying an item that casts summon effretti once per day... free unlimited wishes for your level 1 character... woot.

[Grumman]

when their idea of "buy magic items" is getting a metamagic wand and a casting that gives their character 45 bonus attribute points, then yes that should not be allowed. especially not at the cost of "one sentence idea"... how much does one of those rods costs anyways? (and how much wealth exactly does a 1st lvl char have?)

Who said the campaign has to start at level 1?

How about you get +5 to all attributes from wishes by buying an item that casts summon effretti once per day... free unlimited wishes for your level 1 character... woot.

There is no such thing as an item that casts Summon Efreeti once per day. There is such a thing as a Greater Metamagic Rod of Maximise, and there are rules for purchasing spellcasting from NPCs.

[taltamir]

which your non sentient being cannot, by definition, buy.

plus, a one sentence idea to convert a 0 point buy char to a 63 point buy char... assuming buying down all the way to 3 (not normally allowed)... i mean... really?

sure you CAN use it.. but you have to give similar boosts to other players... that is, everyone is now a 63 point buy... maybe via using the same exact method (a nice party of awakened beings)

[oxinabox]

From alter self: "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

Hit points remain the same.

That's what i orignally throught.
I said that to the polymorphing sorc, in that party and the DM said otherise.
I can't remeber if this is on of his weird OP house rules or one of the many times he's got the rules wrong...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Necropolitan Dread Necromancer, Cha 18. Get Improved Unarmed Strike, and at level 6 you can get Ascetic Mage and wear a Monk's Belt to add your Cha bonus to AC. Get a skeletal horse to carry you and your possessions around. Say your necropolitan status was granted by another Dread Necro 8+ who had the Corpsecrafter, Bolster Resistance, Nimble Bones, and Hardened Flesh feats, within the area of a Desecrate spell with an evil altar present. That would get you a constant +4 Str and Dex, +4 HP/level, +4 turn resistance, +4 initiative, and +10 ft. movement. That character would likely be able to solo most adventures given a full entourage of hand-picked minions, or he'd be at least viable in a party with a few reasonably strong undead mooks.