Ring of sustenance musings...

[BobVosh]

I've been thinking about this item for a bit. I got a few questions. Obviously these question are more roleplay. Since your character doesn't actually do any of these things normally anyway.

1. Does this mean you can't gain or lose weight no matter how much you exercise with this item?

2. I guessing you can gain muscle. Could you lose it?

3. Why does this item bother me when I brush by so many other ones.

[Kurald Galain]

Please... think of the catgirls...!

[Paulus]

I've been thinking about this item for a bit. I got a few questions. Obviously these question are more roleplay. Since your character doesn't actually do any of these things normally anyway.

1. Does this mean you can't gain or lose weight no matter how much you exercise with this item?

2. I guessing you can gain muscle. Could you lose it?

3. Why does this item bother me when I brush by so many other ones.

Wearing the ring does not prevent your body from growing muscle, it in fact encourages it because it provides all the nourishment for your needs. Therefore, exercising would mean you gain muscle normally. Loosing weight is another matter, and if by weight you mean fat, then I would say no. You can not loose fat wearing this ring because it provides all the nourishment you need, therefore you body would never need to burn excess calories etc. As for muscle? Again, no, since your body would not need to consume the proteins etc form your own body to fuel it etc. HOWEVER, if you ate food while wearing the ring, you COULD gain weight as this would count as excess. Since your body is getting what it needs and more.

So. In terms of excess your body works normally, in terms of loss, the ring covers all- meaning no real loss.

Now what will really bake your noodle, is how it reacts to sickness.

[Asbestos]

Wearing the ring does not prevent your body from growing muscle, it in fact encourages it because it provides all the nourishment for your needs. Therefore, exercising would mean you gain muscle normally. Loosing weight is another matter, and if by weight you mean fat, then I would say no. You can not loose fat wearing this ring because it provides all the nourishment you need, therefore you body would never need to burn excess calories etc. As for muscle? Again, no, since your body would not need to consume the proteins etc form your own body to fuel it etc. HOWEVER, if you ate food while wearing the ring, you COULD gain weight as this would count as excess. Since your body is getting what it needs and more.

So. In terms of excess your body works normally, in terms of loss, the ring covers all- meaning no real loss.

Now what will really bake your noodle, is how it reacts to sickness.

Keeping muscles up is more than just getting all your nutrients. If you don't work out, but consume all the same calories as normal, your muscles are going to atrophy some. I'd say that the character couldn't lose fat, but could lose muscle mass.

[Cieyrin]

This is a little off-topic but related: Does a Ring of Sustenance provide the same benefits as a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, plus decreasing sleep need to 2 hours per night?

[Paulus]

Keeping muscles up is more than just getting all your nutrients. If you don't work out, but consume all the same calories as normal, your muscles are going to atrophy some. I'd say that the character couldn't lose fat, but could lose muscle mass.

If we are talking atrophy then we are talking long periods, in which case deterioration could lead to loosing cells from any portion of the body due to age alone. But if this is the case, I suppose I would agree to excessive muscle mass being lost, however with the ring it wouldn't be enough to be debilitating. So in that context yes, you could indeed loose muscle mass from very long periods of inactivity due to your bodies natural aging. But if you only need to sleep two hours... I heavily doubt there is something you would be doing otherwise to cause such atrophy.

[Siosilvar]

This is a little off-topic but related: Does a Ring of Sustenance provide the same benefits as a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, plus decreasing sleep need to 2 hours per night?

Yes.

And it's not underpriced compared to the ioun stone if you count the decreased sleep as costing 1000 gp.

[paddyfool]

Heh. So the logic of this thread is that, with the ring continuously on:

- Muscle mass can go down or up (responds to body's need). If down, it converts to fat; if up, it's fueled from the ring.
- Bone mass can likewise go down or up (also atrophies when you're not using it, although slower than muscle)
- But fat... can only go up, because your full calorific need is always being taken care of, no matter how much you exert yourself?

It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

[Paulus]

Heh. So the logic of this thread is that, with the ring continuously on:

- Muscle mass can go down or up (responds to body's need). If down, it converts to fat; if up, it's fueled from the ring.
- Bone mass can likewise go down or up (also atrophies when you're not using it, although slower than muscle)
- But fat... can only go up, because your full calorific need is always being taken care of, no matter how much you exert yourself?

It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

Actually if the muscle mass went down it'd become waste, not fat. If at all. Unless you don't do anything at all, then your body naturally atrophys into a extremely thin and pasty body, gaunt beyond recognition from your original race... in other words you become a gollum.

hey wait a second... gollum... one ring... precious... OMG the one ring was a ring of sustenance!

ONE RING TO FEED THEM ALL!

[BobVosh]

or you can become like a character from Fable2 who went through healing potions and then eat pies. Which, for some reason, can only be counteracted with lots of celery.

Basically all the opinions here agree with mine.

[jiriku]

ONE RING TO FEED THEM ALL!

...and in the pantry find them.

[Shalist]

New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

Unlike its counterpart, this ring 'feeds' you nothing but Cheetos, resulting in any number of problems over time, not the least of which include obesity and a general lack of energy/depression.

Every week this ring is worn, the wearer must make a DC 14 fortitude save or take one point of constitution damage. Each successive week of continuous use the save DC increases by one, and for every point of constitution lost below 10, the wearer develops a new health problem, determined by rolling on a table I'd write up if I were real bored.

edit: Oh yeah, and with this ring, you need to sleep 12 hours a day, and will still be fatigued, unless you drink lots of Mountain Dew.

[taltamir]

New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

Unlike its counterpart, this ring 'feeds' you nothing but Cheetos, resulting in any number of problems over time, not the least of which include obesity and a general lack of energy/depression.

Every week this ring is worn, the wearer must make a DC 14 fortitude save or take one point of constitution damage. Each successive week of continuous use the save DC increases by one, and for every point of constitution lost below 10, the wearer develops a new health problem, determined by rolling on a table I'd write up if I were real bored.

edit: Oh yeah, and with this ring, you need to sleep 12 hours a day, and will still be fatigued, unless you drink lots of Mountain Dew.

this is the coolest cursed item i have seen in a while...

[Grumman]

I'd rule that someone wearing a ring of sustenance would always tend towards a healthy weight, unless they are eating more than would be healthy without the ring. We know that its effects vary depending on how much you exert yourself, I see no reason why it couldn't also vary depending on how much you eat.

[Blacky the Blackball]

The ring gives you the sustenance you need.

If you're fat you need less sustenance.

Therefore it gives you less sustenance.

Therefore you go back down to a healthy weight.

[Flayerman]

Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

[Shalist]

Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

I'd wondered that about vampires, or perhaps use one as part of a Tarrasque domestication project. If nothing else, I'm sure a rust eater could get at least a snack out of it.

[Foryn Gilnith]

New cursed item: Gamer's ring of sustenance.

I first read "Gamer's" as a name, pronounced sort of like Gammer... :P

[Eldan]

I'd wondered that about vampires, or perhaps use one as part of a Tarrasque domestication project. If nothing else, I'm sure a rust eater could get at least a snack out of it.

Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

[Eldariel]

Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

Tarrasque the Sleeping Beauty? But who will be his Prince Charming? Probably my next BBEG?

[Sliver]

Tarrasque the Sleeping Beauty? But who will be his Prince Charming? Probably my next BBEG?

He wont have to be charming anyway, or kiss the Tarrasque, just remove the ring and wait.. How long it takes after the ring being removed 'till the Tarrasque becoming hungry?

[JeenLeen]

On the overeat/lose weight/gain weight: I would think that, if you are eating, the ring supplies only the nutrients you need beyond what you normally consume. Since it can feed a huge dragon as easily as a small halfling, I imagine it 'scans' the lifeform wearing it or senses the need in its wearer, and supplies as necessary.

Does a Ring of Sustenance allow a Mind Flayer not to eat brains to continue surviving? For example, could a mind flayer subsist on nothing but a Ring of Sustenance and thereby get involved in normal society?

The same goes for other exotic-sustenance creatures. Does it work?

At least in Lords of Madness, it is stated that Mind Flayers eat brains because they need the psychic energy. (Most creatures 'create' enough psychic energy for their existence to subsist on; Mind Flayers do not create any, it seems.)

I have heard many argue that since it is not physical sustenance or nutrients that are needed, but rather a metaphysical 'food', the ring does not supply it. I've heard others say the wording of the ring is vague, and thus could supply it.
I would assume vampires' need for blood is also magical/metaphysical, and thus would work the same. If you read Libris Mortis, it goes into how some undead need blood or living flesh due to physical necessity and others due to psychological necessity. I could see one saying the ring works for the former, but I would think it would not for the latter.

[Blackfang108]

It looks like the inevitable consequence of wearing this ring for almost any prolonged period of time would be obesity - because at some point, you're going to end up eating something, even if only for a social occasion. Kind of a nice reversal of Tolkein's ring (or rings, as the Nine did it too) slowly turning people into wraiths ;).

Here's the thing: it gives you the sustenance you NEED. If you eat something, even at a social function, your Caloric NEED is lessened. Therefore, merely eating something while wearing the ring will NOT result in Obesity.

Eating an entire three-course meal three times a day and topping it off with an entire cheesecake and a Diet Coke, that's another story.

[Keshay]

I've always thought of Rings of Sustenance as cursed items, or at least items used only by the most desperate of people.

The item description goes out of its way to say the ring provides "Life-Sustaining Nourishment", which to my interpretation means that it'll give you just enough to keep you alive. Nothing about maintaining muscle/fat mass. Nothing about providing enough nourishment to quell hunger. After all, you can easily be provided enough nourishment to "sustain life" while still remaining hungry, anyone who's been limited to IV fluids/nutrients only can tell you that.

On top of that, you're "refreshed" after only 2 hours of sleep, that's 6 more hours in a day to enjoy the hunger not being satisfied by the ring. I personally have no trouble falling asleep when not tired, but not everyone is so lucky.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but my two greatest joys in life are, in order: Sleep and a Good meal. This ring of horrors does its best to take away two of the most basic comforts a preson can experience in life.

Rings of Sustenance are evil, plain and simple. When I've DMed I've had characters exclusively using a Ring of Sustenance waste away to a starved/depraved state.

[Blackfang108]

Rings of Sustenance are evil, plain and simple. When I've DMed I've had characters exclusively using a Ring of Sustenance waste away to a starved/depraved state.

Well within your right as a DM, certainly, except, it's specifically NOT a cursed item by RAW.
You know why? Because it's in the same book as the cursed items, but it has a different heading: "Wonderous Items."

If My DM did something like this(without telling those of us who purchased said ring), I'd walk out on the game.

This is ****ty behavior from the DM if he's going to all of a sudden tell you: "oh, yeah, you're very weak now. You look like Gollum."

[Asheram]

Very interesting on the Tarrasque, in fact. Can players sneak up on it when it's sleeping, add the ring (or maybe the same item rebuilt as spomething the Tarrasque can wear) and then just watch it while it sleeps forever? I mean, the text says it only wakes up when it's hungry.

Oooh. then all you need is to pry the mouth open, put on a ring of acid resistance, and lead a team of small dwarves down his throat to harvest the diamonds that grow in his belly

[Keshay]

Well within your right as a DM, certainly, except, it's specifically NOT a cursed item by RAW.
You know why? Because it's in the same book as the cursed items, but it has a different heading: "Wonderous Items."

If My DM did something like this(without telling those of us who purchased said ring), I'd walk out on the game.

This is ****ty behavior from the DM if he's going to all of a sudden tell you: "oh, yeah, you're very weak now. You look like Gollum."

Settle down son, after all you know what making assumptions does, and you're doing it pretty well.

The keen observer will note that it was very clearly stated that "I thought of them as cursed items", I'm fully aware that they are not. And yeah, its listed under the "Rings" section, not Wondrous Items. At least try to get your information right if you're going to try and make a foolishly condescending point.

You also erroneously assume that the wasting away deal was sprung upon players, or instatntly had the effect described. This indicatres a gross ignorance of what the word "wasting" means. This effect was made known to players when they first found such a ring. Additionally, such a process would take a good deal of time, on the scale of months, and easily can be remedied by eating modestly... This was a suprise to no one since, amazingly, everyone else had a similar viewpoint as to the nature of the ring.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Though the response was more hostile than I would have thought advisable, the comment about rings was funny. Still, your original post was quite hyperbolic in describing the evil "ring of horrors"; and strikes me as a bizarre reaction.

[Lysander]

I just assume the ring provides the equivalent of three healthy meals a day. If you're eating a lot of junk food than yeah, switching to the ring might make you thinner because you're not shoveling lard in your mouth anymore the same way switching to a healthier diet can reduce your waistline even without exercise. You aren't going to get fit without exercise though.

[MickJay]

It's interesting how such a seemingly minor magic item must be complex: it needs to monitor the user's metabolism, calculate their caloric needs, check the levels of proteins, carbohydrates, fats and all the microelements, then somehow it needs to synthesize and inject (infuse? teleport?) all the necessary nutrients into the body (directly to the bloodstream? into the stomach? everywhere, at cellular level?), and judging from the way it's used by many adventurers, it's controlling wearer's neural system to prevent the feeling of hunger.

Like some people noticed earlier, I'd also assume that the wearer, if he was either too fat or too emaciated, would gradually reach optimal weight, as obese people don't really *need* the excess fat if they have the ring, while those who are too thin usually are better off after gaining a little weight.