[3.5] Making an Elocater

[Zovc]

I really like the idea of the Elocater prestige class. The flavor in the XPH is quite neat, in my opinion, I want to make my own.

The attribute I'd expect to be highest among Elocaters, based on their flavor, is Intelligence. They understand space far more than you or I ever could (Possibly wisdom, I suppose). I guess this is okay, seeing as the class is meant to grow out of a psionic character, but I imagine a very egotistical character. Maybe not a douchey egotistical character, but a confident one who thinks there is always a right way to do things.

I feel like there is "flavor synergy" with the Factotum, the Swashbuckler, the Monk, and the Psion. What would you expect an Elocater to be like? What races (that Dromite in the book looks awesome) do you think would be most likely? How many Elocaters do you think would be in the world?

[Draz74]

Factotum 3 / Psion 2 / Elocator 10 / Factotum +5 seems like a pretty nifty build. Good flavor synergy, good INT synergy.

Hmmm. Swordsage 4 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Elocator 9 / Master of Nine 5 (with fractional BAB rules) could be pretty fun. Final initiator level 14, final manifester level 8, so not really all that optimal; but awesome nonetheless.

[AugustusGloop]

I'd expect them to be like these guys:

[Siegel]

What's that ? Brain in a train ?

[Asheram]

Looks a bit like something from Dragonmech...

[Tavar]

I think it's a navigator from Dune. Looks like from the David Lynch film.

[PinkysBrain]

It's not a very good prestige class ... so dropping more manifester levels on top of the ones it drops is unlikely to work out well, playing it with Psychic Warrior is also not a great idea (really the prestige class adds very little you can't get with feats, hustle and dimension slide as a PW anyway ... so you might as well get the better manifestation from a full manifester). So ... straight Psion 5/Elocator with an LA+0 race (so not dromite) seems your best bet.

The "trick" to make weak classes work is not to compound it with yet more choices which will actively hurt you (this isn't about optimization, just about keeping up with the straight classes ... ie. the "normal" builds, of course in a party with monks and paladins you can afford a few more weak options).

[jiriku]

The elocater is a skill monkey outside of combat and a lurker/striker in combat. Play like a rogue, using your psionic powers to supplement your more limited skills and lack of sneak attack. Good class combos would be psion/elocator combined with either factotum, scout, or rogue. Pinky's advice will make a good caster, but I really don't see the elocater ever making an effective caster - again, it's intended to be a skill monkey and use its psionics in support of that role.

Outside of combat, be sure to take a class that provides trapfinding, and exploit the fact that scorn earth allows you to avoid most trap triggers. The feat Up the Walls would probably be especially effective for you. Use your teleportation powers to surmount obstacles while dungeoncrawling.

In combat, pair up with the party melee monster, using your spring attack, opportunistic strike, and flanking abilities to get your hits in while avoiding harm. Full attacks are not for you, so get a two-handed weapon and power attack to make the best use of your single attack, and don't end your turn next to monsters capable of strong full attacks. Accelerated action is best used to to cast a spell or get +30 move, not to take an extra attack.

[Person_Man]

I agree that the fluff is awesome. But like many hybrid classes, Elocater is a weak choice. Very weak pre-reqs, 7/10 BAB, 7/10 manifester progression, and a jumble of class abilities that are thematically consistent but with little crunch synergy, and all of the class abilities can be more efficiently duplicated with feats and psionic powers.

Remember that crunch does not equal fluff. You could be a Psychic Warrior or Psion and do everything that an Elocater does, call yourself an Elocater, be more effective then an Elocater, and never take a level of Elocator.

Anywho, if you're already aware of the Elocater's deficiencies and want to run with it anyway, I apologize. But if you just want a fluffy character that does certain things, let me know what your build goals are and what books are available to you, and I'll do our best to help.

[PinkysBrain]

Full attacks are not for you, so get a two-handed weapon and power attack to make the best use of your single attack

Without cheese you are very unlikely to have the BAB to make power attack worth it.

If you are in melee and you aren't making full attacks you need to be doing something special with your attacks (touch attack powers for instance). Otherwise being there at all doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[jiriku]

Without cheese you are very unlikely to have the BAB to make power attack worth it.

If you are in melee and you aren't making full attacks you need to be doing something special with your attacks (touch attack powers for instance). Otherwise being there at all doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

That is the conventional wisdom. And certainly a full-BAB class hits more accurately than one with a smaller bonus. But last time I checked, there aren't many options in the full-BAB psionic classes department. And offensive precognition can mitigate the difference.

Be that as it may, the elocator flanks like a steak (flank steak, get it, hah hah) and can claim as much as a +6 to hit from opportunistic strike. If the OP builds a character that can accurately hit a target with its normal attack, by level 13 he's in a position to PA for -8, claiming a +22 bonus to damage from PC and OS, while still attacking at his normal attack bonus. Add in Knowledge Devotion (which factotum prepares him for pretty well) and assume he can swing a mere +3 bonus from the feat, and he's full-power-attacking at -11, with a +31 damage bonus from PA, OP, and KD, while still attacking with his regular attack modifier.

Alternately, he could omit the power attack and roll at +11 to hit and +9 to damage. That would totally work. But he's really only going to leverage that sick hit bonus by making a full attack, and the elocator doesn't have the hp or AC to stand in melee for long, plus its class abilities are all geared towards improving mobility.

Oh, Zovc, it just occurred to me: think about Battle Jump. Think about it real seriously. It's situational because it impairs your defense and makes you a little less flexible, but in the right circumstances it would spike your single-attack damage up to at least 80.

[PinkysBrain]

A skill monkey and a knowledge monkey? For a +3 the relevant knowledge skill has to be maxed pretty much, even with able learner he is going to be hard pressed for points (without, forget about it).

As for full attacks, schism + psionic lion's charge + hustle?

[Person_Man]

That is the conventional wisdom. And certainly a full-BAB class hits more accurately than one with a smaller bonus. But last time I checked, there aren't many options in the full-BAB psionic classes department. And offensive precognition can mitigate the difference.

Be that as it may, the elocator flanks like a steak (flank steak, get it, hah hah) and can claim as much as a +6 to hit from opportunistic strike. If the OP builds a character that can accurately hit a target with its normal attack, by level 13 he's in a position to PA for -8, claiming a +22 bonus to damage from PC and OS, while still attacking at his normal attack bonus. Add in Knowledge Devotion (which factotum prepares him for pretty well) and assume he can swing a mere +3 bonus from the feat, and he's full-power-attacking at -11, with a +31 damage bonus from PA, OP, and KD, while still attacking with his regular attack modifier.

Alternately, he could omit the power attack and roll at +11 to hit and +9 to damage. That would totally work. But he's really only going to leverage that sick hit bonus by making a full attack, and the elocator doesn't have the hp or AC to stand in melee for long, plus its class abilities are all geared towards improving mobility.

Oh, Zovc, it just occurred to me: think about Battle Jump. Think about it real seriously. It's situational because it impairs your defense and makes you a little less flexible, but in the right circumstances it would spike your single-attack damage up to at least 80.

Um, there are dozens of things that you can do in combat that don't involve Power Attack. If a build doesn't have full BAB, then Power Attack is rarely a good choice.

[jiriku]

Um, there are dozens of things that you can do in combat that don't involve Power Attack. If a build doesn't have full BAB, then Power Attack is rarely a good choice.

True, melee characters have many options. And it's clear you've both got your preferences as to the type of build that can support power attack. I'm not terribly interested in debating it with you, so I'll let the OP decide for himself based on his playstyle, his vision for his character, and the math I've presented.

For the OP, if you're fond of flurries of attacks, I'm sure Person_Man's melee guide could help you in designing a multi-attacking spring attacker. Certainly there are more builds along that vein that you can shake a stick at.

Zovc, to answer your other questions, I think the most iconic elocators would be members of races with a wanderlust, races that lack a homeland, or races whose homeland is very distant from the normal campaign setting. In most settings, that would include humans, halflings, half-elves, half-orcs, shifters, changelings, elans, and kalashtar. YMMV depending on your campaign setting and how focused on optimization you are. I personally think a githyanki or githzerai elocator would be cooler than a mini-fridge, but since WotC's level adjustment rules aren't caster-friendly, I wouldn't recommend that road. But really, even a settled, conservative, travel-averse race like dwarves can produce exiles and wanderers.

Elocators would be rare. Psionics is rare in most settings, and the elocator is a loner. Lone wolf classes tend to be peopled with misfits, exiles, inveterate wanderers, and people who are running away from their pasts. Your basic adventurers, really.

[Zaq]

The rule of thumb is that if you want a psionic PrC that loses more than maybe one manifester level, it's a good idea to start with Ardent, because Practiced Manifester and their wacky (but handy) powers-known setup really helps mitigate the damage. That said, I have no idea if the Ardent would make a good base for an elocator. I've never really looked into how their mantles and powers do or do not synergize with the Elocator's abilities.

[Zovc]

It seems to me that attacks of opportunity are pretty cool guys with the Elocater.

With that in mind, it'd be dandy to use a spiked chain, or similar weapon that threatens a lot of spaces.

I was thinking of entering the class with Factotum 1 (Able Learner)/Swashbuckler 3/Psion 1, possibly taking level 2 in Psion and/or Factotum to get my extra points of BAB before going with the class.

Does this build stand a chance at being a potent Attack of Opportunity freak? I do get +6 to to-hit and damage at my highest Elocater level.

Hmm, it seems I've misread the Elocater's Opportunistic Strike... Well, I still think fighting with a spiked chain (or other 'reach' weapon) would be cool, perhaps I should throw some levels of scout in, since I can five-foot step twice (move 10-feet) in a round for free.

[Zovc]

The rule of thumb is that if you want a psionic PrC that loses more than maybe one manifester level, it's a good idea to start with Ardent, because Practiced Manifester and their wacky (but handy) powers-known setup really helps mitigate the damage. That said, I have no idea if the Ardent would make a good base for an elocator. I've never really looked into how their mantles and powers do or do not synergize with the Elocator's abilities.

Wow, the Ardent could make sense (although I think it is based off of wisdom) with an Elocater... *begins stroking chin*

[Stegyre]

The rule of thumb is that if you want a psionic PrC that loses more than maybe one manifester level, it's a good idea to start with Ardent, because Practiced Manifester and their wacky (but handy) powers-known setup really helps mitigate the damage.

Chalk this up as reason #1 for why I learned to love the Ardent.
This handy little mechanic equates to two additional power levels of psionics on top of whatever you managed with actual Ardent or stacking PrC class levels, all the time getting the full additional benefit of whatever other class you were taking in those four levels.

And the painful limitation of mantle power lists is substantially eased by the fact that you may change the composition of the power list, within reason. (See "Substitute Powers," in the link.)

Does it get any better than this for psionics?

[jiriku]

It seems to me that attacks of opportunity are pretty cool guys with the Elocater.

With that in mind, it'd be dandy to use a spiked chain, or similar weapon that threatens a lot of spaces.

I was thinking of entering the class with Factotum 1 (Able Learner)/Swashbuckler 3/Psion 1, possibly taking level 2 in Psion and/or Factotum to get my extra points of BAB before going with the class.

Does this build stand a chance at being a potent Attack of Opportunity freak? I do get +6 to to-hit and damage at my highest Elocater level.

Hmm, it seems I've misread the Elocater's Opportunistic Strike... Well, I still think fighting with a spiked chain (or other 'reach' weapon) would be cool, perhaps I should throw some levels of scout in, since I can five-foot step twice (move 10-feet) in a round for free.

If you intend to hang out near the enemy and take AoO's, definitely look at feats like improved trip and stand still to keep enemies away from you. With your d6 hit die, light armor and no shield, you won't stand up to enemy attacks for long, especially if you're dividing your stats between Int, Wis, and Dex already.

[Zovc]

I am, in fact, considering tripping like crazy. What are Standstill and Battle Jump?

[DragoonWraith]

Stand Still is a feat in XPH (and therefore on the SRD) that causes enemies that you get AoOs against due to movement to stop moving if you hit them with that AoO. Basically, it's awesome - you can lock down enemies, preventing them from moving around you. Perfect for Reach weapons.

Battle Jump is a feat from Unapproachable East (a Faerun book), which is usually region-specific, but if you get it allowed in a non-Faerun game you could probably take it. It lets any drop from a distance of 5' or more above the head of your target (i.e. 10' for Medium creatures, 15' for Large creatures, etc) count as a Charge, which deals double damage. It also gives bonuses to Grappling (you count as one size larger), which is nice. And since you have Expansion and Up the Walls, you could get the requisite height pretty easily pretty often.

[jiriku]

Yah. And if you're interested in trip-monkey, expansion is just what the doctor ordered - improved reach and bonuses for tripping both at once, who could say no? Your elocator powers will also make it easy to maneuver into position to lock down the maximum number of foes.

Just be cautious how you use that...trip-lockdown is normally a tanking tactic, and if you're too good at it, you may find that the bad guys can't attack anyone but you because you won't let any of them move away!