Usurping a kingdom without violence

[Sploosh]

As the title shows, I am about to try a politcal intrigue kind of 3.5 game where I will be playing a lawful evil wizard (lvl 12) and I am going to try to usrup a lord or jarl and then take over a kingdom but I want to do it without an invasion or any cheap enchantment or whatnot.

I am wondering if anyone has any ideas, examples or just plain old advice for using non violent, non spell focused tricks to quickly achive this.

I was thinking of a few ideas and while I wont state them here incase my DM or fellow players read (they love to lurk) I am heavily considering a feign invasion and a "rescue" from myself that leads to an unfortunate and sudden decline in the current lord's health but I need this to be quick so the other players can get involved with the plot.

[deuxhero]

divination up some blackmail?

[Sploosh]

divination up some blackmail?

Ooh, very sneaky. I feel silly for now even thinking of that.

[Kylarra]

You could just straight diplomance them... technically not an enchantment

[Sploosh]

You could just straight diplomance them... technically not an enchantment

That really isnt any better than going "Disintegrate. I am now the king."

I guess it ultimately will end in diplomacy or blackmail in the end, but it'd be nice to do something underhanded, clever and elaborate instead of rolling a d20.

[DementedFellow]

Get a shapeshifter to go around as the king and piss off the townsfolk. Kicking puppies and drowning children. The other members of the group would have the snuck into the king's chambers and tied him up. Then have the shapeshifter make an announcement from his balcony, stating that there has been a horrible imposter doing atrocious deeds in his name. Luckily the "imposer" has been caught and will be executed. Viola!

It is a little violent. But it sets the table up for some roleplaying as far as the shapeshifter goes.

[deuxhero]

Disquise yourself as current king, do bad things (assumeing you don't have an issue with doing bad things), return to normal, wait for king to get bad publicity, then do something to gain the empty throne.

[DementedFellow]

Disquise yourself as current king, do bad things (assumeing you don't have an issue with doing bad things), return to normal, wait for king to get bad publicity, then do something to gain the empty throne.

[deuxhero]

Funny picture, but I don't see what it has to do with impersonating someone.

[DementedFellow]

We both had the same thought with in moments of eachother.

That's a great idea. Go into Mindbender and bend the king's will to your own. Not what the OP wanted, but still is feasible.

[mabriss lethe]

Don't want to enchant the king?

Keep the crown on the king's head. He then gets the blame when anything goes wrong and you need to skip town with the contents of the kingdom's treasury.

Replace/Blackmail/Enslave his closest advisors. Slowly remove/kill/disgrace those most loyal to the king while keeping the blood off your hands and ensuring that all of the suitable replacements are loyal to you and your agenda (via whatever method you deem best.) Isolate the king. Arrange all of his audiences. Trot him out from time to time for ceremonial occasions and public appearances.

Feel free to handicap him in some way. (replace his royal physician with a friendly cleric who will cast a Bestow Curse upon him under the guise of "treating his Ailments") As he slowly crumbles, ensure that you are the only one to whom he can turn to make sure his kingdom continues to run/to hide his weakness from his enemies. If there are no enemies, make some up. A king who is saved from a "failed" assassination attempt who later succumbs to an illness might be just grateful enough to his savior that he'll rely on you to handle day to day events in his stead.

[Alleine]

Alternatively, kill the king and disguise self as him. Or alter self, one of the two. Only problem being violence is involved, and you'd have to cast it every day for the rest of your life.

Even more confusing:
Step 1: Kill the king
Step 2: pose as the king and be evil
Step 3: Magic up a fake version of the king, illusion or whatever, and drop your impersonation
Step 4: step in to stop the now 'evil' king by zapping the illusion
Step 5: take over the throne
Step 6: ???
Step 7: profit!!!

[taltamir]

there are so many ways to go about it it isn't even funny...

One way would be to get the kings trust, earn a dukedom or the like. Get closer, finally, marry a daughter and be appointed heir... then everyone has "accidents" (if you are impatient).

Another would be to get into the military, rise up quickly (via a variety of evil means), then as a general orginize the others to make a coup. Make sure you are seen as the liberating hero by first ensuring the king is despised... (IE, mind control him into abusing the populace).

Another is to establish your own kingdom; that is, find a village that has it bad, and is escaping due to some disaster (or create one), become a protector of the people... And step by step transform from "warrior" to authority. (aka, first recruit people to aid in the defense, train them, provide them with weapons... do little things "for your protection" etc...)

Step 4: step in to stop the now 'evil' king by zapping the illusion
Step 5: take over the throne

For those two to work you must first be a noble or a general who is a leader of the "resistance"... or you will never be accepted as the new king... just the random guy who murdered the evil king.

[Blacky the Blackball]

1) Marry his daughter.
2) Inherit the kingdom.

[taltamir]

oh, a varient of marry daughter thing is... claim to be the bastard child of his father... convince (possibly via magic; slaughter, etc) the various ruling families of your heritage... then king has accident and anyone opposing you taking the throne does as well.

[Cracklord]

I always go with make it look like people are plotting against him, get him paranoid, get it so you are the only person he trusts, then manipulate him into doing as you wish.

It's fun.

[Temet Nosce]

Charm person while in disguise various powerful nobles and then tell them a large number of plausible lies calculated to make them furious at the king. Use illusions, poison, or enchantment on the kings guards then after the conspirators kill the king revenge him by murdering them. Make sure they get the rest of the kings relatives as well, tragically.

Alternatively, "convince" the king you're his good and loyal servant while quietly arranging accidents for his heirs. When you're heir, arrange for a quick illness.

[random11]

Hurt the economy.

- Prevent imports and exports by diplomacy or by hiring criminals.

- Force the king to raise taxes with a threat like a rival kingdom. No need for actual fighting, just something that will force the king to mobilize an army.

- Change the weather to cause problems with food supply. Plagues and other similar things will also work (make sure it doesn't backfire on you).

- Raise violent sects and cults to create tension between the king and the local religious leaders (it will work even if the king is also the religious leader)

- Spread rumors about how comfortable the king and the people close to him live despite the troubled times.

- If the conditions are hard enough, spread rumors about the "illegitimate king" and how he actually stole the kingdom from the real legitimate ruler (which will just happen to be you or your puppet aristocrat).

[Myrmex]

Chain Gate Solars.


....What?

[Serpentine]

Make yourself indispensible to the ruling family (a la Rasputin). With time, you will be effectively running the country. If you want to actually be running the country, arrange the death, insanity or other incapacitation of the ruler/s (easier if only one, e.g. the king, can legally rule) while their heir is still young. Make yourself regent. Never give up the crown (possibly arrange for the demise of the heir).

[Chrono22]

I've done that before..
The Dreamwalker:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=36
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=62

[Grumman]

Funny picture, but I don't see what it has to do with impersonating someone.

It's an X-men reference (look up Juggernaut and look at his helmet). He's saying he had the same idea.

[Aron Times]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyTPyXUjxLc

Mass Suggestion, Mass Charm, lather, rinse, repeat.

[bosssmiley]

Make yourself indispensible to the ruling family (a la Rasputin). With time, you will be effectively running the country. If you want to actually be running the country, arrange the death, insanity or other incapacitation of the ruler/s (easier if only one, e.g. the king, can legally rule) while their heir is still young. Make yourself regent. Never give up the crown (possibly arrange for the demise of the heir).

Ah, the Carolingian Gambit (aka The Shogunate Shuffle, or the Vizier). Reduce the legal ruler to impotence by emphasising the sacral nature of their kingship. Keep them so busy with inconsequential but symbolically important things that the dreary business of realpolitick becomes a matter for their indispensable right hand man.

Sooner or later the thought will arise in the zeitgeist that "surely the man doing the job of the king should be the king?"

[Tiki Snakes]

Yeah, I'd say the best and safest way to sieze the crown would be 'reluctantly'.

Arrange matters, and yourself, into such a position as you being crowned king is the only logical choice, demanded by the people. Be unhappy about it, but bow to duty, to save the Kingdom.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Here's a slightly different take:

Spoiler

Show

Take a note from Lord V in the Shackled City path. You don't have to take the place of the leader of the town, just, kindly step in when they are "away". Also being a beholder doesn't hurt matters.

[Lysander]

The question is, why do you really want to rule a kingdom? You're a wizard. Being a wizard is better than being king. Every second you're consulting advisers over national agricultural policy is one you're not building a demiplane paradise to conduct magical research on.

[Sploosh]

The question is, why do you really want to rule a kingdom? You're a wizard. Being a wizard is better than being king. Every second you're consulting advisers over national agricultural policy is one you're not building a demiplane paradise to conduct magical research on.

But could I not consult my advisors while on a magical demiplane doing magical research?

Also, thanks for all the awesome advice everyone. I think this is going to make my DM really happy.

[Telonius]

Summon a horrible monster. Let it rampage around for awhile. Then, show up at the king's palace and tell him you might be able to fix the situation, but there will have to be some compensation - namely, the hand of his daughter in marriage. If he disagrees, the rampage continues until he's ready to make the deal. When he agrees, you fight the monster, and in an impressive display of flashy lights and good acting, the beast is driven away, never to return. You get the daughter, and live happily (if evilly) ever after.

If the king reneges, shrug and say that you won't be willing to assist next time the kingdom is in need. Make sure it is by summoning something else.

[Johel]

1) Marry his daughter.
2) Inherit the kingdom.

It works as long as marriage aren't political...and sadly, in the Middle Age, they frequently were.
Also, keep in mind that, while marrying the princess, there might be a few laws like in France that basically said that princess and their descent just couldn't pretend for the throne (14th century law, don't remember its name but it has only be abolished a few years ago in Belgium... So yeah...).

But yeah, that's the sweet way to do it... if you can refrain from doing something stupid like THIS before Daddy hit the bucket.
Griffith's moment of suck...

Other option :
Simulacrum ?
Unless the setting follows a strict Authority Equals Asskicking trope, this should go the easy way.

Then, you can just murder/kidnap the king, whatever work.
Best way would be to actually kidnap and then soul bind him, disintegrate the body and have the Simulacrum carry the gem with him. Somebody is getting suspicious and use divination to locate the King ? Fine, he'll see the Simulacrum.

Fake an assassination attempt against the "king" and make it look like an arcane caster was behind it.
The "King" ban all arcane casters from the capital city and "because magic-users can't be trusted", the very use of magic items is forbidden inside the castle, except for a few token priests.

Tricky part is to get the king in the first place. I'll say :
Simulacrum (a few hair aren't that difficult to get.)
Greater Teleport (on you and the simulacrum, to Bedroom of the king or somewhere he'll be alone.)
Plane Shift (You and the King, while he's asleep, to the Elemental Plane of Air).
From there, you decide what to do of the King.