Stunlock Cheese 4e Metagaming

[HMS Invincible]

While this question could apply to all editions, this is a bit specific.
I have spell focus feat (-2 to all saves), phrenic helm(-1 to all saves), wizard orb class feature(-4 to 1 save). Right now, I can give -3 to everything and -7 to 1 power of my choice.
How much farther should I push this before a DM gets mad at me?

Is a 20% chance each round of escaping stunlock too good? Or am I well within my right to do so? I know that humans get +1 to saves, elites get +1, and solos get +2. Then, if I faced a solo human boss, He'd have a 35% chance to get out of it every round.

This is for a lvl 11 wizard, bloodmage and the spell is sleep or face of death. Should I just keep it for emergencies and lob ongoing damage instead of status effects? Or choose weaker status effects?

[Oracle_Hunter]

Since your DM isn't wise to Stunlock Cheese (or he'd have banned some of those items), if you must be cheesy then save it for emergencies.

IMHO you should just play an Orbizard that doesn't try to cheese it up. A 1/En -5 Save Penalty is plenty.

[Thajocoth]

While this question could apply to all editions, this is a bit specific.
I have spell focus feat (-2 to all saves), phrenic helm(-1 to all saves), wizard orb class feature(-4 to 1 save). Right now, I can give -3 to everything and -7 to 1 power of my choice.
How much farther should I push this before a DM gets mad at me?

Is a 20% chance each round of escaping stunlock too good? Or am I well within my right to do so? I know that humans get +1 to saves, elites get +1, and solos get +2. Then, if I faced a solo human boss, He'd have a 35% chance to get out of it every round.

This is for a lvl 11 wizard, bloodmage and the spell is sleep or face of death. Should I just keep it for emergencies and lob ongoing damage instead of status effects? Or choose weaker status effects?

I doubt it's an issue. An enemy that doesn't have a bonus to that save isn't likely to last more than a round or two anyway. Remember, Elites get a +2 to their saves and Solos get a +5. So even with a -7 to their save, the most important enemies can still make it on an 8. You've hindered them with a condition they might take a couple rounds to save from, while they're used saving from everything almost always.

[Arbitrarity]

Now, if you had a Cunning Weapon (proficiency via Arcane Implement Proficiency), for another -2 or 3 to saves, and maybe an Orb of Ultimate Imposition, it might be cheesy.

[HMS Invincible]

What if I only did one of those weapons? Or the rat familiar, or the terror ichor?

[tcrudisi]

Remember, Elites get a +2 to their saves and Solos get a +5. So even with a -7 to their save, the most important enemies can still make it on an 8.

I just wanted to correct this math: since the solo is still at -2 overall, he'd need a roll of 12 or higher, not 8 or higher.

[Thajocoth]

I just wanted to correct this math: since the solo is still at -2 overall, he'd need a roll of 12 or higher, not 8 or higher.

Right. I meant the exact inverse of what I said. (15 - 7 = 8, but that's odds of success, not the roll needed.)

[Kurald Galain]

Right now, I can give -3 to everything and -7 to 1 power of my choice.
How much farther should I push this before a DM gets mad at me?

If you're unsure if you should go farther, that's a sure sign that you shouldn't. Honestly, -3 / -7 is plenty, and there are many more fun tricks you can play as a wizard without using stun cheese.

FWIW stunlocking is near the top of the list of "things most commonly houseruled" and "things people wish WOTC would errata".

[Jack_Banzai]

If you really want to maximize stunlock cheese, get a Charisma-heavy party member to multiclass Warlock then pick up Thief of Five Fates and load up on Potions of Clarity. Basically it is a sustainable power that lets the Warlock roll an unmodified d20 and try to beat the monster's unmodified d20 roll in order to negate attacks and saving throws. Just a little bit of extra "screw you" to the monster community.

[HMS Invincible]

Ok, so we've confirmed cheesiness. What do you guys think is more appropriate? Spamming stunlock on everyday encounters and switching it up for boss fights? Or save it for boss fights?

Stunlock cheese will be used during emergencies, so that doesn't matter. I'd just spam it in every battle that isn't plot critical.
So my thinking is that it's better to clean up the trivial encounters quickly since 4th edition combat takes a tad longer than I'd like. 2nd, boss fights have plot armor, and its a pain to smash through it.
Sigh, but what if the GM notes this spamming and prepares "counters"? God, I hate metagaming sometimes.