[4E] The Psion Or How Did I Not Notice This Before?

[Aron Times]

Short Version: AT-WILL MIND CONTROL IS AWESOME!

Long Version: I've had a DDI subscription since way before the psion was released, and I never really paid much attention to it. I've focused mostly on martial and arcane classes, not being a fan of the other power sources in 4E and in previous editions.

On a whim, I decided to create a psion in the Character Builder. I knew about the lack of encounter powers, the power point mechanic, and the focus on mental effects, but I didn't really know anything about the class.

To cut to the chase, here's a list of powers that piqued my interest:

1. Betrayal (Psion At-Will 3) - I can make my enemies kill each other, at-will? At level 3? *EVILGASM*

2. Forced Opportunity (Psion At-Will 17) - Hey, you got warlord in my psion! Free attacks are always welcome.

3. Sudden Control (Psion At-Will 23) - Now I can make my enemies make melee or ranged basic attacks against each other. This power also lets me order my enemies to walk off a cliff or into lava.

4. Mind Blast (Psion Daily 9) - Wow. Just wow. Save ends stunning at level 9? Wizards have to wait until level 29 for it!

5. Dominate (Psion Daily 15) - Save ends domination at level 15 isn't mind-blowing, but the range on this thing makes it very dangerous, allowing you to mind control a target 100 ft. away.

6. Thrall (Psion Daily 25) - On a hit, the target is dominated (save ends). The aftereffect is also dominated (save ends). This is at least two rounds of domination if the target saves both times.

I can't believe I didn't notice all of this before. Time to play Lelouch!

[chiasaur11]

Geeze. Looks nasty.

What's the catch?

[Arakune]

Geeze. Looks nasty.

What's the catch?

Probably the same as the normal psion: power points, manifester level, etc.

In other words, it's awesome!

[tyckspoon]

Probably the same as the normal psion: power points, manifester level, etc.

In other words, it's awesome!

's a 4E thread. Power points are still relevant thanks to the 4E Psion's mechanic, but manifester level isn't. That said- I'm guessing the major problems are over-reliance on one damage type [probably Psychic. Resistance to Psychic probably isn't very common, tho.] and targeting Will with almost everything. Will should usually be low enough for that to be a net benefit, but it will cause problems when you run into some anomalous monsters.

[Aron Times]

Well, it looks like the entire psionic power source's shtick is breaking the rules. For example, psions do not have encounter attack powers. Instead, they get higher-level at-will powers that can be augmented with power points.

Spoiler

Show

Betrayal - Psion Attack 3
You weaken your foe’s sense of self and force it to betray a comrade.
At-Will * Augmentable, Charm, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target: One enemy
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: You slide the target 1 square to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 1
Hit: As above, and the target gains a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 2
Hit: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll and the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier. The target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.

Basically, if you use Betrayal without spending power points, you get the normal effect. Put 1 power point on it, and you get the Augment 1 effect, put 2 powers points on it, and you get the Augment 2 effect, and so on. Higher-level powers tend to have more expensive augment costs.

[Grynning]

I've been playing a 4th ed Psion (Changeling, in an Arabian Nights style setting), and I can speak to the awesomeness of Betrayal. I hardly ever use any of my other at-wills (we're level 12, so I have 3 or 4 now I think). Mind Blast is also a great, great power. I hope it doesn't get the nerf-bat when the book gets printed.

I love the Psion because to me it's the only Controller that really feels like they, y'know, control, rather than just being an AoE artillery piece. You keep enemies locked down, make sure your buddies always have CA (which is easy since so many of your powers stun, daze, or slide people) and just generally throw your enemies into chaos.

I remember the first time we played, the DM let me use my amazing bluff check to convince the bad guys I was still on their side (I was shapeshifted to look like one of their bunch), even while I was making them kill each other. I'd yell things like "Look out! Behind you!" and use Betrayal, then curse at them for hitting the wrong guy. We all got a good laugh out of it.

Edit: Build Advice: Psions also get a feat at paragon level, that, while not as broken as Orbizard cheese, is still really nasty. Check out Dominating Mind. -2 to save vs. the 3 nastiest status effects you can cause? Yes PLEASE!

[Mando Knight]

Geeze. Looks nasty.

What's the catch?

Those who have the power of Geass are fated to be alone.

[FoE]

The Psion does look pretty awesome. But I think they can upping its power level because a lot of players don't like psionics. Good thing I have no such compunction.

[Draz74]

I love the Psion because to me it's the only Controller that really feels like they, y'know, control, rather than just being an AoE artillery piece. You keep enemies locked down, make sure your buddies always have CA (which is easy since so many of your powers stun, daze, or slide people) and just generally throw your enemies into chaos.

... I've just decided that if I ever play in a 4e campaign (where books beyond PHB1 are allowed), I want to play a Psion.

[Nai_Calus]

The downside is that it's preemptively banned in any campaign I ever end up running.

Seriously, we finally get an edition where all the classes have more or less the same mechanics and it's nice and simple and all the DM has to worry about is individual instances of cheese from some combos of things... And then, of course, freaking stupid psionics has to come in and screw it all up with its Mary Sue 'look at meeee I'm different!' and it's crappy go-back-to-sci-fi fluff.

Again.

For the fourth edition.

Ugh. No.

[Starsinger]

Except the 4e Psion fluff isn't anywhere near as sci-fi based. Psions (the class atleast) seem to be more "Mind Mage" and less "Lol Sci-fi".

[Ecalsneerg]

Of course, the fact that the psionics fluff for 3rd and 4th, crystal fetish aside, is a more accurate description of magic from some fantasy fiction...

[Kurald Galain]

Of course, the fact that the psionics fluff for 3rd and 4th, crystal fetish aside, is a more accurate description of magic from some fantasy fiction...

Such as what, exactly? I'm not aware of any fantasy books involving ectoplasm, eerily bass-pitched humming, or mental chimes.

(and that's aside the sentient crystals with tentacles, which frankly I find hard to take seriously)

[Ecalsneerg]

Such as what, exactly? I'm not aware of any fantasy books involving ectoplasm, eerily bass-pitched humming, or mental chimes.

(and that's aside the sentient crystals with tentacles, which frankly I find hard to take seriously)

Magic is usually described as a reservoir of magic to be tapped into (pp pool), with weaker spells taking up less of the reservoir (less pp). Predefined slots only really appear in the works of Jack Vance (well, and D&D-based literature, but that's pretty obvious). Psionics really seems more in line with that than 3.5's slots system, or 4e's at-wills/encounters/dailies breakdown, although admittedly the latter is a more abstract, cinematic breakdown than 3.5 spell slots.

EDIT: I severely need to proof-read. I just saw my previous post read 'fluff', not 'mechanics' as I'd intended.

[Milskidasith]

Of course, the fact that the psionics mechanics for 3rd and 4th, crystal fetish aside, is a more accurate description of magic from some fantasy fiction...

That doesn't make sense at all. I don't think you meant it to read mechanics, since the mechanics don't really have a crystal fetish.

[Kurald Galain]

EDIT: I severely need to proof-read. I just saw my previous post read 'fluff', not 'mechanics' as I'd intended.

Oh. Yeah, then I agree with you. Pretty much the only books that use vancian casting are (obviously) those by Jack Vance. And some D&D novels.

[Artanis]

Geeze. Looks nasty.

What's the catch?

The augments get really expensive. You can only max-augment twice or so before you run dry.

[Aron Times]

The psion's high intelligence makes him a good candidate for Sorcerous Vision, which lets you substitute Arcana for Perception and Insight. With five starting skills as a human psion, plus Arcana from Arcane Prodigy, I would have my entire class skill list maxed out at level 11:

Class Skills: Arcana (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis).

Nice.

[Edea]

The augments get really expensive. You can only max-augment twice or so before you run dry.

Heh, those are the powers you don't use. The best at wills are two level 1s (dishearten, mind thrust) and a level 3 (betrayal). The maximum augment cost is 2; this is more than enough for the vast majority of fights you'll get into, even at low levels when you have barely any PP, MUCH LESS later on (especially at epic; yes, you keep them that long, they're so good you never need to replace them XD).

[Artanis]

Hmm...I hadn't noticed that. AFAIK only half the class is out ATM, so I'll wait before making judgment on that front

[Mando Knight]

Spoiler

Show

Betrayal - Psion Attack 3
You weaken your foe’s sense of self and force it to betray a comrade.
At-Will * Augmentable, Charm, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action - Ranged 10
Target: One enemy
Attack: Intelligence vs. Will
Hit: You slide the target 1 square to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 1
Hit: As above, and the target gains a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier.
Augment 2
Hit: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier to a square adjacent to an enemy. The target then makes a melee basic attack as a free action against that enemy, with a bonus to the attack roll and the damage roll equal to your Charisma modifier. The target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.

Augment 2 is probably the only one that's always useful, though the standard version is good enough when the enemies are clustered together. You need to be able to get the opponent to another enemy with a slide 1 or else the power fails.

So far, the Psion's biggest drawback is that excepting the domination powers, it deals even less direct damage than the Wizard or Swordmage (barring feat-stacking for massive modifiers on those two). It may very well be the purest controller in the game so far.

[Ecalsneerg]

That doesn't make sense at all. I don't think you meant it to read mechanics, since the mechanics don't really have a crystal fetish.

Psicrystals, various crystal-related powers, gem dragons (some of whom spit gems!)...

[Jack_Banzai]

I have seen Augmented Disheartens in playtest and boy-oy-oy does it rock hard.

[Aron Times]

Looking at the orbs and the staves sections of the Compendium, it looks like my psion, who I've named Melisizwe, a.k.a. "Mel" to his friends, will be using an Orb of Inescapable Consequences. Considering how many psion dailies don't deal damage, this item basically guarantees that a daily will hit once per day.

For his NADs, I'm going for a Cloak of Distortion. Virtually all psion powers have a range of 10 squares or greater, so he will get a lot of mileage out of his cloak.

Not sure what type of leather armor to clad him in, though. Any suggestions?

[CorvidMP]

Let us not forget that this isn't the final version of the psion, the actual release is quite a few months off and I'm sure that there will be changes.

What they are and if they'll involve them coming down to a more normal power level is anyones guess.

anyone know how much they changed other classes they previewed at actual release?

[Tiki Snakes]

Pretty sure the psion is, officially at least, 'finished'. (Well, the half we have.)

It's preview matirial, NOT playtest.
Still, it could well be errated by then, who knows?

[Grynning]

Augment 2 is probably the only one that's always useful, though the standard version is good enough when the enemies are clustered together. You need to be able to get the opponent to another enemy with a slide 1 or else the power fails.

So far, the Psion's biggest drawback is that excepting the domination powers, it deals even less direct damage than the Wizard or Swordmage (barring feat-stacking for massive modifiers on those two). It may very well be the purest controller in the game so far.

The augment 2 is the one I use the most, I usually save PP for it if there's still multiple melee'ers on the board. One of the best things I've found about Betrayal is that a lot of paragon and epic level enemies have mean riders on their basic attacks, like immobilize or ongoing damage, so it's nice to be able to use that against their own side.

I am the lowest-damage member of the party, that is true, but the strikers do just fine at making the bad things fall down. I've learned to view it as my job to make sure that nothing gets away from them.

I notice a lot of people seem to like Dishearten...it was actually the one I dropped at level 7 (when you have to replace). The feat Psychic Lock gives you pretty much the same benefit as the unaugmented power on any attack you make, and the no opportunity actions thing is nigh useless since players rarely if ever provoke OA's from monsters if they can avoid it, and very few monsters have other kinds of opportunity actions. The augment 2 is nice, but just not enough to overshadow either of the level 7 powers.

Edit: @Joe Silver - for armor, there's not a lot of abilities you *need* on armor, so just go with what you like. Of course, you can never go wrong with Delver's or Veteran's armor.

[Edea]

...neither of the level 7 powers are area bursts :/.

Also, Psychic Lock stacks with the power's effect, and the level 2 augment is hilarious (I'm currently running at -10 to the enemy's attack rolls with that thing; anything I connect with ain't hittin' JACK unless they roll a 20, and even then that's probably going to register as a normal hit instead of a crit. Pretty darn close to robbing any enemy of its standard for that turn).

Nobody uses the level 1 augment XD.

Of course, I'm usually using Betrayal, but when I need an area attack, that's the de facto choice for a psion until level 27, when Psionic Veil becomes available.

[Grynning]

...neither of the level 7 powers are area bursts :/.

Huh...I didn't even notice it was an AoE. Whoops
I might need to retrain into that then.

[1of3]

It's actually the class features I like best. Short range telepathy per encounter. Long range telepathy once per day. Making opponents grant CA without rolling. Yes, please.