Bard's songs in 4E

[Katana_Geldar]

So I'm playing a bard and we decided as a party that I was going to sing a song to attract the attention of certain people in the town.

But I am really wondering what I roll for this, if I roll anything at all. Perform is no longer there and I think it would be a Charisma-based skill but it fits neither Diplomacy or Bluff. Any ideas?

[cupkeyk]

what level are you, i think you can use a ritual. its like a charm person, either a lowly +2 to diplo or full blown they give you 500gp.

[Decoy Lockbox]

I think this is one of those instances where it just happens, because it would be cool.

[Mando Knight]

It kinda does fit Diplomacy, as it's a means of influencing other peoples' attitudes towards you. If it bothers you that much, you could roll a straight Charisma check, possibly modified by the instrument's enhancement bonus (if any)...

There's also the ritual songs, which are apparently ballads of somesort given their casting time, and perform various magical effects. (Or, of course, your music could be just that good)

[Katana_Geldar]

Level 1, and I have Traveller's Chant and Create Camp as my rituals, not useful at all really.

[tcrudisi]

Absolutely... you have a couple of options to go for.

Personally, I'd make it a skill challenge. You are wanting to keep their attention, presumably so your allies can do something. So why not make it a skill challenge? If you pass, you kept those people enraptured with your song. If you failed? Well, your allies got busted.

Here are the skills I'd incorporate:
Bluff -- It all boils down to a facade.
Insight -- 1) to see if they like your song and 2) to figure out what they want you to sing about. Cannot be used more than twice, and the second application cannot be used in conjunction with Streetwise..
History -- a successful check gives you something great to sing about. Maximum of one success allowed.
Streetwise -- can be used like Insight in enabling you to figure out what they want you to sing about. Cannot be used more than once, nor in conjunction with Insight.
Endurance -- sustain that high note, boy! Can only be used once.
Diplomacy -- you are, ultimately, trying to influence others.

In fact, I'd make it a two-parter. The first section is yours. Great, you kept them enraptured. Now, did your allies successfully sneak around? You've done the lions share of the work, but now they have to just not bungle it:
Stealth -- to avoid the guards eye.
Athletics -- to scale the wall, or break open the door.
Thievery -- to pick the locks.
Acrobatics -- balancing and acrobatic stunts are always important when trying to sneak around behind people's backs!

I have no idea exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but based on the little information I do know, I'd make it a complexity 3 skill challenge.
Section 1 (the bard's section) requires 6 successes. Section 2 would then require 2 successes. All of this must come before 4 failures. I'd say the DC on all of the above, but I don't know your levels, so I can't set it.

[Hashmir]

I would say it's a Diplomacy check. It's influencing other's opinions and ideas, and it makes them pay attention to you (in a peaceful way).

To put it another way, Charisma represents your raw ability to see your will realized. Diplomacy represents the peaceful and cooperative persuading application of this. Intimidate represents the aggressive and coercive persuading application of this. Bluff represents the deceptive and sneaky persuasive application of this.

To extend this to combat, you could say that bards apply this by using magic to impose their will on opponents. Sorcerers simply impose their will on the universe to get magical effects. Warlocks might impose their will on whatever they made the pact with (sentient or not), or perhaps one's strength of will determines how powerful the channeled magicks can be.

...

I may have gotten off-topic, but my point is that a Diplomacy check makes perfect sense to me. You might argue that this would imply every warlock or diplomat is quite capable of playing instruments, but I don't think that's necessarily true. I think it's more accurate to say that WotC didn't feel that instrument training was a big enough deal to bother with rules for it. At best, it's like a language, and you can track it as such.

EDIT:

Also, if I were running it, I'd totally make it a skill challenge.

[Katana_Geldar]

We're trying to find out about this cult in the town, it has an underground movement so we need to be seen as people whom the cult would want to recruit and hopefully send after the people who want to stop the cult (namely the rest of the party).

I suggested Bluff to the DM but he hasn't gotten back to me, and Skill challenges don't really work online as it can sometimes be a day between rolls.

[Volin]

Or it can be a bunch of rolls at once. The DM could just have you pick four skills you think would apply to the situation, put in the roll, and send the post. The DM can tell you which ones were successes afterward, and you can see what else you need to do to keep the town enthralled.

Otherwise, I would make up a ritual to send the DM. But that's boring.

[Kurald Galain]

So I'm playing a bard and we decided as a party that I was going to sing a song to attract the attention of certain people in the town.

I would say bluff.

Suppose a perform skill existed - then it would obviously key off charisma, and your bard would obviously have it trained; so it would have the exact same check modifier as your bluff skill.

[Katana_Geldar]

Update: the DM decided for a single Bluff check, good thing I have someone else from the party with me to see the effects of my song.

[Sir_Elderberry]

LFR mods use Bluff for telling stories even when the people listening know they're fiction. So I think it gets some Perform-ish duties.

[Katana_Geldar]

I guess it would depend on the song's purpose.

If I was singing a song to sooth a savage beast, Diplomacy might work.

A rousing battle chant might be Intimidate.

And a hymn to a god could be Religion.

But I do like Endurance to be able to sing high notes. Mine is only 2 though

[Asbestos]

I guess it would depend on the song's purpose.

If I was singing a dong to sooth a savage beast, Diplomacy might work.

A rousing battle chant might be Intimidate.

And a hymn to a god could be Religion.

But I do like Endurance to be able to sing high notes. Mine is only 2 though

Singing a what?

[The Dark Fiddler]

Singing a what?

Singing a typo. I love when people mix up s and d.

I'm tell you what, I'd abdolutely never so that.

Also, there's no Perform in 4E?

[Asbestos]

Also, there's no Perform in 4E?

No, there is not. Though, with bards not being in the first PHB, one would wonder why there would be a Perform skill in 4e...

Perform, IMO, is actually a pretty silly skill, not from the standpoint of 'why should players have a skill to sing songs' but from the standpoint of 'why does there exist a skill that is only relevant to a single class'. I feel like Perform could have been summed up as an addendum to the Bardic Music feature along the lines of: In order to use this feature properly the bard must pay a tax in skill points.

[Mando Knight]

Also, there's no Perform in 4E?

Who used a Perform check besides the Bard in 3.X, anyway? Why does it need to be an individual, universal skill if it's indigenous to a single character class?

[Katana_Geldar]

Something along the lines of perform could have been a class feature, kinda like Song of Rest though with some rolls in play, like what we're talking about above.

Perhaps songs have categories.

[tcrudisi]

I guess it would depend on the song's purpose.

If I was singing a song to sooth a savage beast, Diplomacy might work.

Nah, I'd say Nature. But to each their own.