[Any System] Different ways of handling PVP

[mikeejimbo]

Some RPG systems are more adept than others at handling PVP combat, but it seems like few of them are designed with that as one of the core design precepts. (On the other hand, feel free to prove me wrong by counter-example.) However, PVP doesn't have to be direct combat.

In a game I'm about to run, the players are all competing for the same resources, but they are "not allowed" (actually just highly discouraged from) physically assaulting one another.

Has anyone had any success with this type of game? What other forms of indirect PVP can you think of?

[cupkeyk]

How about vampire: the masquerade?

in games we had, it was all very polite politicking, all encounters among players were usually inside elysia(no fighting) or in public (no breaching the masquerade), but combat would often come with attacks from warghouls or abominations. We competed over favors from archons, status, fame and artifacts. Sometimes we'd trick others into bloodbonds. we would have wars on who dressed most fashion forward during events. Really, we did. hahaha.

[Dimers]

Some RPG systems are more adept than others at handling PVP combat, but it seems like few of them are designed with that as one of the core design precepts.

I don't have anything useful to say in response to your question, but I think it's interesting that three of the 3.x D&D books I've read have specifically added duel or competition options that can be used for PvP. Seems like there's a demand for it.

[mikeejimbo]

I've never actually picked up V:tM. Is that kind of stuff assumed to happen in a campaign?

[The Rose Dragon]

Vampires do that, yes. Even "close friends" among the Kindred are known to stab each other in the back whenever they could. A single coterie is probably the worst enemies they will ever have, especially since vampirism leads to... interesting world-views, as your humanity drops.

[Lapak]

Paranoia is certainly built to expect it.

[Totally Guy]

Burning Wheel has a detailed social conflict resolution mechanic called Duel of Wits.

When players disagree on what needs to be done the GM can ask if a Duel of Wits is appropriate. Then each side states their terms and rolls to determine the strength of their argument.

Then it plays like a rock, paper, scissors game instead using Points, Rebuttals, Avoiding the Topic, Incite, etc. Which all gets roleplayed out. Dice are rolled and eventually there is either a winner or a compromise.

This certainly stops an argument from consuming a whole session.

The players could choose to escalate to a full fight. Combat mechanics are are fundamentally equal whether you're fighting monsters, characters or player characters.

[Dimers]

Glug's paragraph about Points and Rebuttals and so forth reminds me -- the nWoD Roman vampire game has an elaborate system for oratory and debate. That'll more often be used between PCs and NPCs, but there's no reason it couldn't apply between PCs.

Oh, and the CAPES superhero game system has an interestingly-balanced limited pool of resources for all the good guys and bad guys together, IIRC.

[Totally Guy]

Glug's paragraph about Points and Rebuttals and so forth reminds me -- the nWoD Roman vampire game has an elaborate system for oratory and debate. That'll more often be used between PCs and NPCs, but there's no reason it couldn't apply between PCs.

We've been playing nWoD Vampire the Requiem and I've not seen this system. Is this part of a roman style expansion or something?

[Temet Nosce]

Paranoia is certainly built to expect it.

This. A thousand times this.

Paranoia is essentially a game based on screwing over everyone else. It's a game about who can be the bigger bastard without getting caught at it, and it succeeds at it magnificently.

[BobVosh]

Some RPG systems are more adept than others at handling PVP combat, but it seems like few of them are designed with that as one of the core design precepts. (On the other hand, feel free to prove me wrong by counter-example.) However, PVP doesn't have to be direct combat.

In a game I'm about to run, the players are all competing for the same resources, but they are "not allowed" (actually just highly discouraged from) physically assaulting one another.

Has anyone had any success with this type of game? What other forms of indirect PVP can you think of?

Paranoia is built around it. You are doing something wrong if you have to shoot them when no one sees you. Its best to cause something to happen to them...6 times as is usually necessary.

[Kurald Galain]

Paranoia is essentially a game based on screwing over everyone else. It's a game about who can be the bigger bastard without getting caught at it, and it succeeds at it magnificently.

That's not true! Paranoia is a fun game that's all about happy teamwork and nice cooperation and fun! The Computer says so. Do you doubt The Computer, citizen?

[Totally Guy]

How about an explanation of how Paranoia manages this rather than just saying the name of the game.

That is the intent of the thread, right?

[Dimers]

We've been playing nWoD Vampire the Requiem and I've not seen this system. Is this part of a roman style expansion or something?

Pff, sure, make me go look up the information ... that's, like, another FIVE times I have to click the mouse ... Ehm, the book was called Requiem for Rome, ISBN 978-1-58846-270-1, hardbound, about 250 pages, printed by White Wolf. It's mostly fluff, but there are some mechanical differences (Drive and Firearms skills? not so useful here), including the debate mechanism.

[infinitypanda]

How about an explanation of how Paranoia manages this rather than just saying the name of the game.

That is the intent of the thread, right?

That information is above your Clearance Level, citizen.

[Lapak]

How about an explanation of how Paranoia manages this rather than just saying the name of the game.

That is the intent of the thread, right?

Well, first, the combat rules favor offense over defense, and don't favor the PCs over their opposition. (Including other PCs.)

Second, the role of the PCs in the game is (among other things) to eliminate Commies, Mutants, Members of Secret Societies, and other Traitors. Every PC is both a mutant and a member of a secret society, which means that all of the other PCs are explicitly a threat - even if they don't zap you for it, every other person plus the all-powerful authorities will once they are told. The single overriding theme that runs through the rules is 'screw the other guy before he can screw you.' This is the optimal tactic in combat, in loot division, in party role selections; the rules always favor acting against others rather than acting to protect yourself.

Finally, the rules promote this by giving every player 'backups'. Every PC has several clones lined up and ready to be sent to the party's location (by cannon if necessary) should they die, and the tortured logic of the setting means that a clone is not automatically implicated by treason or mutation or etc. that an earlier copy engaged in. So you can feel free to trip your friend while you're both being chased by a bear: the bear will eat him, you'll survive, and OOC he'll be immediately replaced so hard feelings aren't an issue.

EDIT: Related to the OP: since zapping your buddies out in the open for no reason is treasonous, it's recommended you deal with them underhandedly. (Which should apply to the original question.)
- When it comes time to choose party roles, volunteer for the ones safely at the back of the group while pushing others forward. "Joe will scout ahead; I'll protect the rear to make sure they don't sneak around us!"

-In the interest of group survival, feel free to use any area effects while friends are in the line of fire. "Sorry about the burns, Phil; it looked like they were about to overwhelm you and if they'd gotten through the door they would have killed us!"

- Compromise your companions whenever possible. Ranges from "Pete just regenerated an injury! He's a mutie traitor!" to "Just between you and me, Boss, Pete really blew the negotiations with the Robot Banditos."

[Project_Mayhem]

That information is above your Clearance Level, citizen.

The information that that information is above his Clearance Level is above your Clearance Level, citizen. Please report for termination, and have a nice day

[Temet Nosce]

That's not true! Paranoia is a fun game that's all about happy teamwork and nice cooperation and fun! The Computer says so. Do you doubt The Computer, citizen?

I would never doubt Friend Computer! I am insulted that you would bring such scurrilous accusations to him, that his most loyal and devoted servant would ever dream of doubting his very word. Clearly this is an attempt to cover your own guilt! Friend Computer, look he wears red! He must be a Commie!

Heh, my last character was given to overblown protestations of loyalty and rants.

But yes, Paranoia is a game about trying to convince an insanely paranoid and quirky computer that your friends are traitors through the use of underhanded tactics and straight out lies. Then you kill them. Over and over.