Low Level Trapmonkeys

[Tavar]

Okay, in the neverending dungeon crawl, I've found something interesting. Low Level Characters have no defenses against traps. Why do I say that? Because a standard starting skillmonkey has between +5 and +7 in search, and the lowest trap dc is 20. Thus, unless you take 20 every step of the way, you'll find fewer traps than you'll trigger. Is this really how it's supposed to work? Or did wizards just mess up their numbers, again?

[HCL]

Yeah, but a CR 1 trap is not supposed to TPK a party of 4 which is supposed to include a cleric/druid to back you up. And traps are generally expected to be placed at certain locations (like a chest). But the dart trap might be under CRed.

I have not found any dart traps so far but I have prepared with http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/elan.htm :)

[jiriku]

It is not extremely unrealistic to take 20 on a search check in areas you deem high-threat. Taking 20 to search a single 5-ft square takes two minutes. If I was dungeon-crawling, I personally would have NO PROBLEM waiting two minutes for the party rogue to check a door before I went through it, or check a desk or chest before I opened it.

[Tavar]

At this point, though, it's every square that we move.

[ericgrau]

A CR 1 encounter is a bit much for a level 1 character. Have the rogue search, but the fighter walks down the passage first. A level 4 rogue is meant to solo such encounters, and he can just take a 10 all day. Or spending 2 minutes per 5 feet isn't entirely unreasonable, unless there are monsters nearby. This isn't essential, though, as a fighter can usually take the hit. Btw, if none of the DCs are above 20, you can have the entire party search and save some time. Or if you have a dwarf he can check for traps put in stone or made out of stone as well as a rogue can.

Also of note is that about 1/3 traps also have a DC of 20, even at CR 10. So any class can take a 20 and find some traps at any level.

[Tavar]

Unfortunately, it's a solo dungeon crawl. And I don't know, taking 20 seems to me like it should be reserved, not be mandatory.

[ericgrau]

CR 1 for a lone level 1 character is an overwhelming encounter. The only reason you don't face rapid doom is because you're a rogue. Searching everything from top to bottom to make sure you don't die is quite reasonable. And if you're getting xp for these encounters you'll be level 2 after 4 traps.

[Tavar]

Well, we are gestalt, so that helps. But, on the whole, yeah, the traps are killer.

[olelia]

We? I thought it was a solo dungeon crawl.

[Tavar]

It's multiple games. Essentially, each solo player is going through a different version of the same dungeon.

[HCL]

You're meant to be challenged btw. Or at least if I was running it, 70% of the characters would die at level 1 :)

[Tavar]

This is less about those threads than the fact that until level 5 most skill monkeys won't be able to find traps more than half the time unless they take 20, and that's assuming a +2 int bonus.

[Tanaric]

I don't know how many times I have to suggest ten foot poles, grappling hooks, and 40 lb sacks of flour until the idea sticks.

[Tavar]

Have you ever carried a ten foot pole? I've never understood how one's actually supposed to carry that on a dungeon crawl and at the same time be able to do anything else.

[Starbuck_II]

Have you ever carried a ten foot pole? I've never understood how one's actually supposed to carry that on a dungeon crawl and at the same time be able to do anything else.

Collapsable 10 foot foles.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

For a party, DC 20 is reasonable. Everyone takes 10 to Aid Another, and the Rogue takes 10. 6 of the 10s, plus 4 ranks, +2 Int, and the Rogue's 10 makes him able to hit 22.

Solo, it's much rougher. Solo, the best Trapfinder is a Warlock.

[Tavar]

For a party, DC 20 is reasonable. Everyone takes 10 to Aid Another, and the Rogue takes 10. 6 of the 10s, plus 4 ranks, +2 Int, and the Rogue's 10 makes him able to hit 22.

Solo, it's much rougher. Solo, the best Trapfinder is a Warlock.

Oh? Well, I am a warlock. Technically a warlock/scout. How should I be looking for traps?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Oh? Well, I am a warlock. Technically a warlock/scout. How should I be looking for traps?

Summon Swarm for rats to trigger floor traps, Eldritch Blast to open doors and chests, and Detect Magic to cover everything.

[Tavar]

Hmmmm. You're idea has merit. Plus, I actually picked up the summon swarm invocation. And it's only a, what, full round action? This could prove promising.

[Tanaric]

I confess to wondering why you weren't using rats earlier.

[Tavar]

Honestly? I forgot. Plus, I was still kinda playing him like the druid.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Honestly? I forgot. Plus, I was still kinda playing him like the druid.

...Druids don't send swarms of rats to set off any traps in the hallways ahead of them? Wow, I've been playing them wrong.

[Tavar]

Level 1 druid using the shapeshift variant.

And he only died because the enemy needed to roll an 18 or higher to hit, and managed to do that the majority of the time.

[mostlyharmful]

Why not take a 20 every time? If your DM insists on throwing overwhealming encounters at your guy then just let him eat the skill/CR rules and make your character level up in complete safety (albeit a bit boring and monotonous) until you can take a 10 and get on with the dungeon. If I was wandering around on my own in a trapped underground labarinth I'd be damn cautious too so it's not even like it's OOC or anything.

[Foryn Gilnith]

"Take 20" and "roll once" are extremes. My trapmonkeys typically try to search for something like 1d4+2 times per square. Gives a decent chance without being too slow.

[Riffington]

CR 1 for a lone level 1 character is an overwhelming encounter.

Wait, isn't that a fair fight?

[tyckspoon]

Wait, isn't that a fair fight?

Depends on what you define as a fair fight. A character soloing an equal-CR encounter is one where both participants should have roughly an even chance of coming out the winner. If you want a CR appropriate encounter for a solo character, the kind where the players are assumed to win without undue effort, then you need to use CRs of something like level-3. (Example time: 2 orcs are a CR 1 encounter. They will completely slaughter any lone level 1 character they win initiative on, and strongly threaten any they don't. One kobold is a CR appropriate encounter, and any level 1 character can stab it and move along, perhaps taking a survivable hit on the way.)

[Mercenary Pen]

Wait, isn't that a fair fight?

Nope, a CR1 encounter by 3.5 rules is a fair encounter for a party of same level adventurers though I forget precisely how many adventurers that supposition is based upon.

[LibraryOgre]

FWIW, I personally hate the Trapfinding ability as it is written. I far prefer allowing everyone to find any traps they can make the DC for, and use Trapfinding either to give a bonus to search checks for finding traps, or reduce the time it takes.

[Riffington]

\If you want a CR appropriate encounter for a solo character, the kind where the players are assumed to win without undue effort,

I think this makes me sad. If the PCs aren't going to have a believable chance of losing, then consider just narrating rather than rolling the scene.