Shuriken, what are they good for?

[Darcand]

I was looking at making a shuriken chucking urban ranger until I took a good look at them. 1.5 average damage I can live with, but with a range of 10ft and the constant cost of enchanting new ones, is there any reason to bother?

[Otodetu]

3.5 dnd hate throwing weapons, don't bother with them.

[Lapak]

Poison them, perhaps?

[Choco]

Houserule a glove that enchants things you throw, has a range increment, etc. Limit each glove to one type of thrown weapon. Basically like a bow/crossbow but for thrown weapons. That will at least put thrown weapons on par with archery.

Don't forget to then consider thrown weapons as ammo, in regards to not requiring Quick Draw just to attack more than once per round. If an archer can fire 4+ arrows in 1 round (an action that involves drawing the arrow from the quiver each time), then there is no reason a thrower can't draw shuriken/knives from a container just as fast without the Quick Draw feat.

[Vizzerdrix]

Don't they function like ammo for enchantments?

[Tackyhillbillu]

You can have an effective throwing weapon character. Hafling Rogue + Whisperknife + Master Thrower actually can work pretty well.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Sadly, in D&D, the best throwing weapons are either massive rocks or greatswords. Shuriken and Daggers are a distant third.

[root9125]

Shuriken, what are they good for?
Absolutely NOTHING, say it again!

[Salanmander]

Don't they function like ammo for enchantments?

Yes, and that's the primary reason they're useful. You can put some random esoteric enhancement on some of them (like * bane for example), and have them around in case that comes in handy, without sinking tons of gold into it. Also, oils of flame arrow are *nice* for shuriken.

I would be wary of houseruling said glove, because it would bring thrown weapons up to par with archery, but then there are a bunch of feats and things that improve your abilities with thrown weapons (bloodstorm blade, master thrower, power throw...) that don't have equivalents in archery. It's still not necessarily a bad idea, but you'll want to carefully consider various interactions first. *Not* considering those interactions is what got us things like 1d2 infinite damage weapons.

[Jergmo]

Well, if your DM houserules it (and I personally do), to have them be like they were in 3.0, then they're good. In 3.0, from what I understand, you could throw three per round. So, with an energy enchantment, they're awesome, even if you use a bunch of them. (Though it's also more guaranteed damage than a bow). 3 damage for sure, 4 damage on average per round. A longbow's average damage is supposed to be the same, but there's the possibility of rolling a 1 for damage or something.

[RagnaroksChosen]

there great for ninja characters or characters that have a way of provoking SA, or Sudden strike for a full round.. then try to throw as many as possible.

I've seen ninjas do some pritty cool things with them.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

there great for ninja characters or characters that have a way of provoking SA, or Sudden strike for a full round.. then try to throw as many as possible.

I've seen ninjas do some pritty cool things with them.

Except in what way is that preferable to normal archery?

[ghashxx]

Shurikens, or light throwing knives whichever you want to fluff them as, really aren't useful except that you can have 50 enchanted specialty throwing items. Since they're treated as ammunition you don't need quickdraw to grab one. These are things which you either use in conjunction with sneak attack, or you have as a back up weapon for whenever you run across something extra nasty and you need to hit with a +1 enervating weapon, or something like that.

[Kaiyanwang]

Except in what way is that preferable to normal archery?

The first thing that come is my mind is hidden weapons. If you want to assassinate someone, a bunch of shuriken is better than a bow if you want to hide your weapon.

Not so much, I admit

IIRC there is a "style" for ninjas in dragon magazine: you forgo 1-3 sudden strike dice to add 1-3 attacks with shuriken at different targets, high attack bonus.

But very situational.

[jiriku]

Palm Throw + Stormguard Warrior = make a series of touch attacks with shuriken to gain a large bonus to hit and damage on your next turn?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Except in what way is that preferable to normal archery?

a few things actualy...
It costs less.. as i am enchanting them as ammo much like arrows but i don't also have to have a bow.

I can do it 1 handed or two handed...

and most importantly
I can get more shurkiens off in a single round then archery.

[ericgrau]

+4 to sleight of hand checks to conceal. Allows enchantment as ammo which is a cost advantage over thrown weapons, yet can get extra attacks from TWF, rapid shot and flurry which is an advantage over bows which only get rapid shot. If you don't mind the low AB. And don't forget spells like flame arrow to get a good boost without spending gold. Usually you're better off enchanting a bow and maybe some of its arrows, but for situations that fit what I just mentioned that's when you use shurikens.

[Kulture]

Don't forget that they're also used in the 3rd(?) level assassin spell "Fire shuriken" as a focus/material componant, but has to be slathered in a flamable substance which I can't recall the name of.
These shurkens do something like 3D6+(or was that 5D6?) damage each, and a spellthief 5/Assassin 10 can make six from one casting, they unfortunately don't ignite flamable things, though that may be a good thing.

[Psyborg]

My monk/master thrower carries a buttload of shurikens as backup in case the sais that he normally throws get lost/damaged/AMF=no Returning or something.

I'm using Greater Flurry + Rapid Shot + Palm Throw to throw twelve monk weapons a round at level 14, without TWF, haste, or Speed.

[Longcat]

Shuriken? Well:
-Usable with Flurry of Blows
-You get to add Str and Precision damage to each one
-With Aptitude Enchant, you get to add your dex bonus with Shadow Blade

Other than that, you're kinda out of luck.

[AB]

They`re good because you can throw three of them at once. So, three times precision damage, three times poison damage etc.

As basic weapons, of course, they suck.

[Asbestos]

They`re good because you can throw three of them at once. So, three times precision damage, three times poison damage etc.

As basic weapons, of course, they suck.

Isn't that 3.0 and not 3.5?

[Person_Man]

Shuriken are a special Monk weapon. They were created so a Monk with Quickdraw can always make a Flurry of Blows, every round, starting at level 1, without ever wasting an attack.

Having said that, yes, they suck. Pick something else, like a harpoon, razor net, glot, boomerang, annulat, orc shotput, etc.

[jiriku]

Historically, shuriken weren't intended to inflict lethal wounds, but were intended to distract an opponent or inflict nuisance injuries on exposed flesh like hands, faces, or feet.

How about this. Take rapid shot and palm throw and enchant a number of shurikens with the wounding special property. At BAB +6 or greater, you can throw six of these with a full attack. Every one that hits deals 1 point of Con damage.

Alternately, take a level of rogue and the staggering strike feat. Do what you can to improve your initiative. Using the aforementioned rapid shot and palm throw, toss a series of these at opponents in the first round of combat while they're flat-footed. They'll be staggered for a round. You can do this again during a battle by using an effect like invisibility to catch you foes flat-footed again.

The Stormguard warrior trick I mentioned above could also be interpreted as using the shuriken to distract your opponent to give yourself an advantage.

These uses are interesting and have some flair to them, and all are at least somewhat faithful to the historical use of the shuriken as a distracting or hindering weapon, rather than a weapon with deadly intent.

[Milskidasith]

Shuriken are good for being shields. +5 Deflecting Shuriken, go!

[Otodetu]

Shuriken are a special Monk weapon. They were created so a Monk with Quickdraw can always make a Flurry of Blows, every round, starting at level 1, without ever wasting an attack.

Having said that, yes, they suck. Pick something else, like a harpoon, razor net, glot, boomerang, annulat, orc shotput, etc.

Umm, why do you need quick draw?
It counts as ammo, so its a free action to draw them without the feat.


On another note, im trying out a houserule that states that you can free-draw any throwing weapon as part of throwing the weapon, even without quick-draw.

Still no-one that bothers with thrown weapons.

[ken-do-nim]

Shuriken are a special Monk weapon. They were created so a Monk with Quickdraw can always make a Flurry of Blows, every round, starting at level 1, without ever wasting an attack.

Having said that, yes, they suck. Pick something else, like a harpoon, razor net, glot, boomerang, annulat, orc shotput, etc.

Can you remind me what quickdraw is needed for in that scenario? If shurikens are treated as ammo and drawing ammo is a free action, doesn't a monk get to flurry with them without taking quickdraw?

[kentma57]

There was an experiment running in our group which hindged on what was considered an 'attack' was the action of throwing 84 shuriken a round one attack or is each an shuriken a seperate attack as we normaly run them in our group(it makes shuriken more practical).
Skirmish damage should not say "on all attacks"

84 attacks x 5d6 = 420d6 skirmish damage!

EDIT: Sorry had to correct my math...

[AtwasAwamps]

There was an experiment running in our group which hindged on what was considered an 'attack' was the action of throwing 84 shuriken a round one attack or is each an shuriken a seperate attack as we normaly run them in our group(it makes shuriken more practical).
Skirmish damage should not say "on all attacks"

84 attacks x 7d6 = 588d6 skirmish damage!

I think that's how its supposed to work, actually.

[Mongoose87]

Shuriken are good for being shields. +5 Deflecting Shuriken, go!

Do you have to throw it to get the AC bonus?