Using message for spying?

[Glass Mouse]

So, in my current D&D group, we've run into a really stupid quest (this happens when we ignore our DM's stuff and just let the retarded characters run the game) where one character needs to speak to people who'll most likely kill him if things go wrong. We'd like to stay in touch with him during the conversation, so we can know if we need to rush in.

Putting my two brain cells together, I hatched the idea of using the cantrip message. I mean, if:
- concentration only needs to be maintained by the caster
- and the replies have to be whispered/spoken
then couldn't you, theoretically, have a method of spying on one end of the conversation? Our friend could go "So we're going to THAT place? Ah, to get THAT thing! Wow, THAT person sure is brilliant!", or at the very least allow us to hear his squirms when he messes up. Answering both his message-linked friend and the NPC at the same time.

Our GM had no idea if this would work, and one player accused the idea of being munchkin-y. I was charged with looking it up 'til next time, but as far as I can see, it's a question of interpretation.

So, what do you say? Is this a stupid, munchkinny way of exploiting an it's-nowhere-near-that-powerfull spell? Or a clever, creative and reasonable use of cantrips?

[Sliver]

If the conversation happens in a room or something open enough for the spell to get through (no "1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal (or a thin sheet of lead), or 3 feet of wood or dirt" blocking the path), without someone watching they aren't being spied on, then they probably don't care about being heard right?

[taltamir]

the message will travel around blocks, as long as there is a clear path... but if the door and windows are closed then the range is decreased... nonetheless, it still has some fairly short range.

[Sliver]

They can't be too far because the range of the spell and they probably want to get in and help their friend if things get ugly. The place has to have some clear path that has non of the specified things or the spell is blocked. If they don't put up guards and meet in a less soundproof place, they deserve to be eavesdropped, cantrip or not.

[Ranos]

Isn't this how message is supposed to be used ? I can't see anything munchkiny about using the spell the way it was intended to be used.

What do you guys use it for other than spying ? I have to admit I'm at a loss.

[Sliver]

To avoid being overheard when sneaking or dealing with secret information?

[PhoenixRivers]

Not at all. It's just as easily done (perhaps easier) to simply use hand signals.

See the Movie "21" for more.

[Sliver]

Guards can use it to pass messages like "Intruder spotted" without alerting the intruder. If they don't look at each other all the time or it is night and it may be hard to figure out the motions, it is a use.

[Glass Mouse]

/\ Yeah, players can use it for the same. Or for "speaking" through much noise (say, on each side of a battlefield). Staying in touch while sneaking. Sometimes, for delivering messages behind the backs of a team mate. Etc.

My question is actually just, "Can you, while connected via message, have a conversation with an NPC, while your message-casting friend can still hear what you're saying?"
Ignoring the range and blocking limitations (we'll cross that bridge, when we get to it).

I just want to know if it's at all possible. Sounds a bit like it, from your replies (I mean, no one has contradicted that part yet ). But, yeah? Is Ranos the only one who has actually used it like that?

[Lysander]

The person replying must whisper, so it can't transmit a conversation at any normal volume. If the NPC isn't suspicious that you're whispering your side of the conversation you could probably do it. It might work in some contexts, but if the NPC is speaking normally and you're whispering everything it would be odd. One possibility is speaking normally, and then trying to covertly whisper key information when the NPC isn't looking and can't hear.

The NPC would also receive a sense motive check to detect that you're up to something, and a wizard or anyone else familiar with magic spells would be aware of this trick with the Message spell.

[Sliver]

The person replying must whisper, so it can't transmit a conversation at any normal volume. If the NPC isn't suspicious that you're whispering your side of the conversation you could probably do it. It might work in some contexts, but if the NPC is speaking normally and you're whispering everything it would be odd. One possibility is speaking normally, and then trying to covertly whisper key information when the NPC isn't looking and can't hear.

The NPC would also receive a sense motive check to detect that you're up to something, and a wizard or anyone else familiar with magic spells would be aware of this trick with the Message spell.

Darn that is some fine rule lawyering.. I don't think it is intended that you can't normally talk and pass the message, but indeed the spell says "You can whisper messages and receive whispered replies" and "you must mouth the words and whisper"..

[Fcannon]

Yeah, by strict RAW it wouldn't really work. You could have another character tag along with Invisibility up and have him whisper the entire conversation back to the team. Better yet, you could have the whole team tag along under an Invisibility Sphere if you're that worried things will go south.

[Glass Mouse]

Okay, thanks for the replies, guys! I think I'll point my GM to this thread, then let him decide. After all, tough rule calls are his job, right?

[kieza]

Huh...this thread's title had me thinking in an entirely different direction, namely, send someone an innocuous message, like a bill or something, and use it as the target of View Object.

[herrhauptmann]

Depending on your prep time, there's a 3.0 bard spell which lets a pair of coins act as walkie talkies. It's in song and silence.