On a scale of 1 to Chuck Norris, how epic is this?

[Crel]

Alright. I'm planning on starting a new campaign soon (as soon as I finish designing the world to my happiness) with brand-new players. My goal is to addict them to DnD forever by having the most epic possible campaign. I've got possibly the greatest (and one of the most difficult) final battles set in mind. The campaign is almost certainly going to (and planned to) take at least a year.

First, the cosmology. I'm going to start them out in my world I've created. They will end up exploring and learning about the "civilized lands" as I've determined them during levels 1-6 while I teach them to play. As I said, I'm intending to find and start with 4 brand-new players. Also, I plan to use Pathfinder. I hope for party balance and awesomeness throughout.

Anyway, the cosmology. Eventually they will realize that the world has no end; it is, in fact, one of the outer planes. The Material Plane will be our, modern (2012 for obvious reasons) world. For Heaven and Hell, I plan to use Dante-style cosmology, with relatively standard DnD cosmology for all other planes. They will enter our world not realizing (as players, not PCs) that it is in fact, our modern world. After 1-2 levels, they will realize that something is going terribly wrong, and is involving at least their world and our world, and possibly the rest of the multiverse.

At this point they should have learned enough to handle extreme speed of gameplay, and it will start building up to an encounter with the elder evil, Satan. He will end up being summoned into New York for logical reasons I haven't yet figured out, and will begin to destroy it, and the rest of our world if the heroes fail to defeat him there. He will be at least 2,000 feet tall, and will rip the Empire State Building off of its foundation and use it as a greatsword. And the heroes, in collaberation with a until-then skeptical world government, will have to kill him, or reverse the portal, then go on an excursion into Dante's Hell to kill him. I expect this to be at least level 25 or so to make them stand 1/2 a chance.

How epically AWESOME is this for a final titanic battle?

[Shademan]

sure you hope to play alot. leveling from 1 to 20 can take QUITE alot of time.
sounds very epic and fun though. I'll just advice patience.

[Gamerlord]

Epicness might give them too high expectations for all your campagins.

Besides, I personally hate the Idea of our world shoved into D&D.

[chiasaur11]

Sounds about...

Chuck Bartowksi on the epic scale.

[misterk]

Ah, op, you are full on enthusiasm for an idea that may well work. I know what it feels like to be thrilled by your own story telling and wanting to tell everyone else. Humility is important in all cases, however, and your tone may cause some to react badly. Also, a few practicial issues:

D&D is not a system designed for the modern world, and as such tends to fail to represent it. By the time the players reach level 7 they will have far more power than anyone on earth has ever posessed, which might lead to some interesting reactions. In addition, getting to epic level may take longer than you think, and will require MASSIVE amounts of plot along the way- thats 25 levels worth of antagonists to throw at your players. A year is a severe underestimate, I suspect.

If I were you I would introduce your players to an easier, simpler set up. This will allow both them and you to understand the rules better, and your playing style. With this experience under your belts, why not start with a much higher level party who have discovered a dangerous disturbance in the planes. Following this leads them to earth, where they encounter said demons, while trying to persuade the governments of the veracity of their ideas.

[FoE]

As yet, I am unimpressed.

Sounds like you've got a cool final battle and not much else. And even that final battle sounds a bit cliché and improbable — you can't just swing a building like a sword, you know.

Besides, how do you know you'll even make it that far? Your group could decide they hate D&D after the first session. Better to work on impressing them at the onset.

[streakster]

I highly recommend John C. Wright's Satan, rather than the standard red guy with horns. It's a much more impressive version.

It's in his Everness, series, last one if I remember aright.

[Master_Rahl22]

I'm with Face of Evil. If they get bored after a couple sessions, they'll never see the awesome final battle you have set up. I also agree that DnD is not the game for representing the modern world. Way before they hit 25 they'll have passed the level of power found even in legends like Hercules, much less stuff that can be proven historically. Go for something that sucks them in early and is interesting and involving the whole time, not just a cool ending.

[Doc Roc]

So... what's your first encounter like?

[KillianHawkeye]

I agree that it sounds epic, but it really all depends on the implementation. And if you can keep a stable group playing a game for that long.

Personally, I tend to hate a crossover between D&D and modern earth/sci-fi, so try to make sure you don't get any players like me.

[Giggling Ghast]

Personally, I tend to hate a crossover between D&D and modern earth/sci-fi, so try to make sure you don't get any players like me.

Agreed, though I do like D20 Modern. But that's different: it's D&D rules adapted to fit a modern setting, not just jamming one into the other.

[Jerthanis]

Sounds about...

Chuck Bartowksi on the epic scale.

Holy crap!

...I don't know if that's low or high on the epic scale... and I WATCH Chuck.

[KillianHawkeye]

Agreed, though I do like D20 Modern. But that's different: it's D&D rules adapted to fit a modern setting, not just jamming one into the other.

I don't have any problem with modern earth or sci-fi games at all. I just don't like them mixing with my fantasy games (Shadowrun being the only notable exception).

I once got stuck playing Expedition to the Barrier Peaks (or whatever it was called), the old D&D adventure where you discover a crashed spaceship filled with killer plants and robots and stuff. Worst. Adventure. Ever. Of course, when we finally got out of that by jumping into a portal, our DM put us inside a modern military base complete with tanks and dudes with machine guns. I quit the campaign after that.

The point is, don't tell me we're playing fantasy D&D and then spring modern/sci-fi crap on me out of nowhere.

[Iamyourking]

How in the world do you expect to make a 1000' Satan a challenge for a group of mere level 25s? Sure, it sounds like you want him to a beatstick so he can't be obscenely powerful but I'd make it CR 40-50 or so and a Greater Cosmic Entity. About the only way you could have a group of level 25s fight that with any degree of plausibility would be if you had Metatron or Sandalphon or Michael soften him up first; and when all you've got going for you is a boss fight so far, you probably don't want god-like NPCs doing all the work.

[KillianHawkeye]

How in the world do you expect to make a 1000' Satan a challenge for a group of mere level 25s? Sure, it sounds like you want him to a beatstick so he can't be obscenely powerful but I'd make it CR 40-50 or so and a Greater Cosmic Entity. About the only way you could have a group of level 25s fight that with any degree of plausibility would be if you had Metatron or Sandalphon or Michael soften him up first; and when all you've got going for you is a boss fight so far, you probably don't want god-like NPCs doing all the work.

Nah, the wizard just needs to research the epic spell Summon Godzilla.

[Iamyourking]

Godzilla is 328' tall, he'd get squashed like a bug. The biggest monster he ever fought was Destroyah, who was only 560' and managed to kill him anyway.

[tyckspoon]

Summon Bigger FishZilla.

[KillianHawkeye]

How about Summon Unicron? Overkill?

[chiasaur11]

Godzilla is 328' tall, he'd get squashed like a bug. The biggest monster he ever fought was Destroyah, who was only 560' and managed to kill him anyway.

Well, that's why you give Godzilla a scaled up version of Megas XLR.

[Iamyourking]

Which is just going into silliness; a 25th level Wizard won't be able to do that without some serious cheese boosting his epic spells.

[RandomNPC]

i'd go with ground chuck, but thats because i don't like the things you're taking from.
1: that religon was pushed on me at a young age, I never liked being pushed around, i'll say no more.
2: I play D&D to get away from this world, not to be put back in it.

have fun though.

[UglyPanda]

I'm confused. What's keeping them from learning the terrible secrets in five seconds? With some of the people I've played with, the plot twist would've been spoiled in ten jokes.

On a scale of 1 to Chuck Norris, I give it a Paul Reubens.

[Glass Mouse]

Summon Bigger FishZilla.

That'd just be wrong. I mean, it'd stink up the city for a week!


To the OP: Yeah, what a lot of other people have said. It sounds like a pretty cool bossfight, but how do you get there?
That said, your description sucked me in. I'm sure, with enthusiasm like that, you gonna produce something great no matter what! Not much is better than a GM who really feels for it, IMO.

You a new GM?

If you are, I'll just give a little bit of advice, recently learned by myself: Focus on the PCs. Sure, you have great NPCs, an epic world, and the coolest plot, but if you don't take an interest in the people actually doing things... yeah. You're doomed.

[Golden-Esque]

First, the cosmology. I'm going to start them out in my world I've created. They will end up exploring and learning about the "civilized lands" as I've determined them during levels 1-6 while I teach them to play. As I said, I'm intending to find and start with 4 brand-new players. Also, I plan to use Pathfinder. I hope for party balance and awesomeness throughout.

Good move, but if your new players are anywhere as sharp as my new ones are now, they'll get the basics by the end of the fourth session (Level 3). Waiting until Level 6 might be tedious for some, depending on the learning speed of your group; I'd recommend not having a set time for the learning period. Only use what you need.

Anyway, the cosmology. Eventually they will realize that the world has no end; it is, in fact, one of the outer planes. The Material Plane will be our, modern (2012 for obvious reasons) world. For Heaven and Hell, I plan to use Dante-style cosmology, with relatively standard DnD cosmology for all other planes. They will enter our world not realizing (as players, not PCs) that it is in fact, our modern world. After 1-2 levels, they will realize that something is going terribly wrong, and is involving at least their world and our world, and possibly the rest of the multiverse.

So, they're on a random demi-plane? Is that going to have in-game complications (a la your players being Outsiders)? Also, does the game use d20 Modern, or High Fantasy? Your players would look kinda awkward being knights in tights in our modern world :).

At this point they should have learned enough to handle extreme speed of gameplay, and it will start building up to an encounter with the elder evil, Satan. He will end up being summoned into New York for logical reasons I haven't yet figured out, and will begin to destroy it, and the rest of our world if the heroes fail to defeat him there. He will be at least 2,000 feet tall, and will rip the Empire State Building off of its foundation and use it as a greatsword. And the heroes, in collaboration with a until-then skeptical world government, will have to kill him, or reverse the portal, then go on an excursion into Dante's Hell to kill him. I expect this to be at least level 25 or so to make them stand 1/2 a chance.

How epically AWESOME is this for a final titanic battle?

Personally, I always thought Lucifer was a more epic name then Satan. Satan kinda gets overdone and is used in a more childish way. Lucifer has a true epic, old name feel to it, but that's just my opinion.

To be honest, your story sounds similar to this show my girlfriend watches, called Supernatural. You should read up on it and make sure that you stay clear of blurring the lines too much. Also, I'm not sure how epic I think using the Empire State Building as a weapon is. After all, it's only made of normal steel; it's not a particularly difficult weapon to destroy or anything.

[Crel]

Wow, thanks for the responses.

I think I'll definitely create some major plots that may or may not tie into the multi-plane battles. I can definitely tell from what you've said that a plot of that size can have some comments (beginning mysterious signs, etc) but not be the total plot until the last couple of levels.

I know the screwyness of d20 modern, and was planning on homebrewing a system so that technology will be the equivalent of high-end magic. I don't really have an entire plot set out, just how I want it to end.

Thanks for the reminding tips to focus most on the PCs. I think it will be easier to do that once I know what the PCs want to play as (we haven't started yet).

I planned to wait until roughly level 6 because from my experience, it takes longer for players to catch on. Perhaps thats just my newer friends, perhaps you have stellar players. I'll just wait and see.

My plan is that the plane the players start on is one of the outer planes or far outer planes. I'll prolly have the characters explore a huge amount of it beyond what I'll have initially set out to add to the effect as a plane, not just a material world.

Thanks again for the advice, and feel free to add more! This is really helpful.

[Solaris]

Wow, thanks for the responses.

I think I'll definitely create some major plots that may or may not tie into the multi-plane battles. I can definitely tell from what you've said that a plot of that size can have some comments (beginning mysterious signs, etc) but not be the total plot until the last couple of levels.

I know the screwyness of d20 modern, and was planning on homebrewing a system so that technology will be the equivalent of high-end magic. I don't really have an entire plot set out, just how I want it to end.

Thanks for the reminding tips to focus most on the PCs. I think it will be easier to do that once I know what the PCs want to play as (we haven't started yet).

I planned to wait until roughly level 6 because from my experience, it takes longer for players to catch on. Perhaps thats just my newer friends, perhaps you have stellar players. I'll just wait and see.

My plan is that the plane the players start on is one of the outer planes or far outer planes. I'll prolly have the characters explore a huge amount of it beyond what I'll have initially set out to add to the effect as a plane, not just a material world.

Thanks again for the advice, and feel free to add more! This is really helpful.

Then I would recommend sticking to the Prime Material until about sixth-to-eighth level. Starting with the Outer Planes provides a very different campaign and feel than starting with the Prime Material.

[Volkov]

The modern world would butcher most anything they meet in your cosmology. The Machine gun killed the war-horse you know? Really only casters of a setting are going to prove to be more than speed-bumps.

[SilverSheriff]

Summon Bigger FishZilla.

I fix this for you because I think this is a round-about way of saying it.

[Iamyourking]

The modern world would butcher most anything they meet in your cosmology. The Machine gun killed the war-horse you know? Really only casters of a setting are going to prove to be more than speed-bumps.

That's mostly true, but when you're bringing outsiders into it like he is it's a whole different game. I've got quite a long response that uses Devils to explain why, but I'll refrain from posting it unless you want me to.

Edit: Finished it is 844 words just to provide some quantification.

[SilverSheriff]

I'd say its about a Chuck Schumer... (1/10)