Running WFRP for the first time

[Grey Paladin]

Any advice? things I should know of or watch out for?

[Matthew]

Which edition? The first and second are more or less the same, but third edition looks to be too different for advice to apply from the other two incarnations.

[Grey Paladin]

Second. Third edition looks more like a boardgame than an RPG.

[Matthew]

The main complaint I hear about second edition is that combat is too slow and random. This was not something I observed in first edition, possibly expanding the damage die from 1d6 to 1d10 may account for the increased length of combat, or other issues that I am unaware of.

In general, combat is a good way to quickly and permanently lose a low experience character in War Hammer. The game is one part Call of Cthulu and one part Dungeons & Dragons with a bit of Role Master thrown in for good measure. The best solution to dealing with this is to make sure the starting characters are competent enough to deal with the adventure that you have in mind.

Play up the dark humour of the setting and make sure the players soon have the sense that chaos is lurking all around them. If they are travelling through the wilderness, make it oppressive and dangerous enough that they want to see the next settlement as soon as possible.

[Darrin]

Any advice? things I should know of or watch out for?

Combat is deadly. Even the most epic heroes can get one-shotted by a lowly goblin that rolls jackpot on Ulric's Fury. You may have to permanently maim a few good characters before the players understand that while a great deal of the game focuses on combat, it's never something you charge into without thinking.

Yes, the game has swords and sorcery and heroes prancing around in bright shining armor. But that's not where it starts. The PCs start out as rat-catchers, sewer jacks, cattle-rustlers and sheep-smugglers. You want to be a dashing knight or powerful wizard, you have to start by mucking out the chicken coops for a few shillings... chicken coops full of chaos cultists and mutant razorbeak roosters.

The atmosphere of the game has more than a few (intentional) similarities with Call of Cthulhu. The aristocracy and nobility are corrupt and full of demon-hugging cultists. The monsters the PCs are up against are usually a lot stronger than they are. And everybody starts with about a 69% failure rate at almost everything they do. So the theme should be a little darker, the shadows a little longer, and those shreds of hope a bit more fleeting... However, this sword may not be a +5 holy avenger, but it's going to gut a few cultists before it slips out of your trembling blood-slicked fingers.

At least, that was 1st Editon. 2nd Edition is a wee bit more sparkly, not so much doom-and-gloom.

The PCs start out poor and spend most of their early careers that way. Saving up for a chain shirt or good-quality breastplate is a major investment. Magic items should be fairly rare, and when they do find them, there should be strings attached or other drawbacks to keep the PCs on their toes. Fellowship is the most important stat in the game - it gets you cheaper gear, keeps you out of trouble with the authorities, and helps bring in the cavalry when the party bites off more than it can chew.

Oh, and this is very important... just when the PCs start to have some success and think they're getting the hang of things, sink their friggin' barge.

[hamlet]

My only advice for the GM here would be that when you think things are getting a little too dark, to take a step back, pause for a moment, and then look for a way to make it even darker.

Remember, dark does not equal blood splattered on walls and catering to the most peurile senses, though very often they are hot on each others' heels in this game.

[Morty]

The combat in WFRP is indeed deadly - once someone hits. And from my experience, it can take long before someone does.
You should also be prepared to houserule on the fly, because from my observations, WFRP 2ed sometimes suffers from the "if you don't have the skill/talent, you can't do it(or you'll suck at it)" problem.

[bosssmiley]

Darrin beat me to sinking the barge, so I can only offer hack/'s single roll combat system and the advice that treating the PCs like Baldrick is doing it right.

WFRP: black comedy role-playing.

[Grey Paladin]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I've been informed one of my players actually has a copy of the first edition so now I have a choice - which one of the two do you prefer and why?

[hamlet]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I've been informed one of my players actually has a copy of the first edition so now I have a choice - which one of the two do you prefer and why?

The magic system for the 2nd edition is, I believe, a little superior and feels a bit less kludgy.

The 1st edition books is . . . well it's . . . you know I really don't have much to say there. Perhaps a little more deadly, randomly so. The 2nd edition certainly isn't peaches and cream, or at all not deadly, it's just slightly less so.

To be honest, I'd recommend 2nd edition if only because its a very decent distillation of most of what was good in 1st into a smaller, more concise package if you aren't counting in the splat books. Of course, the 2nd edition main book is a little too concise in some ways (namely monsters and equipment) so there's that to consider.

[wormwood]

I'm currently running a WFRP 2nd edition game, and I ran a 1st edition game many years back. I think the rules are much better in 2nd edition and there are many more easily accessible sourcebooks. That said, I LOVED 1st edition. It was brutal and beautiful.

My advice is to ease the players into their first combat, if you can. If they're d&d players, like my group, they're likely of the mindset that they're PCs and they own the world. You'll have to be gentle in letting them know that isn't really the case, otherwise you'll have a TPK in short order. After my first session, I had one of my players tell me, "I've never actually felt so vulnerable in a fantasy game."

[pasko77]

The main complaint I hear about second edition is that combat is too slow and random. This was not something I observed in first edition, possibly expanding the damage die from 1d6 to 1d10 may account for the increased length of combat, or other issues that I am unaware of.

In general, combat is a good way to quickly and permanently lose a low experience character in War Hammer. The game is one part Call of Cthulu and one part Dungeons & Dragons with a bit of Role Master thrown in for good measure. The best solution to dealing with this is to make sure the starting characters are competent enough to deal with the adventure that you have in mind.

Play up the dark humour of the setting and make sure the players soon have the sense that chaos is lurking all around them. If they are travelling through the wilderness, make it oppressive and dangerous enough that they want to see the next settlement as soon as possible.

Talk about me? :)

I solved the combat slowness issue by houseruling:
1) +1A in every basic profile
2) no more Ulric's Fury, for F's sake. You can houserule it to deal 1d10/2, if you really need it, but it makes the combat much too random.

I also changed a lot of little things. For instance, move silently and hide, both into a single ability called stealth. While I claim no originality on this :) a little good piece of advice is: check the simplifications in the ability array occourred in D&D from 3rd to 4th edition, and apply it in WFRP.

Bye, Pasko

[pasko77]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I've been informed one of my players actually has a copy of the first edition so now I have a choice - which one of the two do you prefer and why?

No way. The second is better by far. Rule-wise and graphically.

[Darrin]

No way. The second is better by far. Rule-wise and graphically.

I concur, 2nd is a much cleaner, more elegant rules systemm (Chris Pramas is a top-notch designer) that fixed most of the bigger problems in 1st (notably the "Naked Dwarf Syndrome").

But I have a big caveat... if you can get your hands on some of the 1st edition material, don't be afraid to use it. A great deal of it can be used off-the-shelf with minimal tweaking. (Fortunately, a good chunk of the smaller "classic" scenarios have already been converted to the new system, either in Plundered Vaults, as PDF downloads, or converted by fans.)

While the older-edition grognards may think back fondly of the Oldenhaller Contract as a good starting scenario, I actually consider Night of Blood (originally printed in White Dwarf #87, later reprinted in Restless Dead and Apocrypha Now) as one of the best introductory scenarios ever written.

[pasko77]

(Fortunately, a good chunk of the smaller "classic" scenarios have already been converted to the new system, either in Plundered Vaults, as PDF downloads, or converted by fans.)

I'd be interested in some links, if you can provide.
Thanksalot!

[Deadmeat.GW]

I concur, 2nd is a much cleaner, more elegant rules systemm (Chris Pramas is a top-notch designer) that fixed most of the bigger problems in 1st (notably the "Naked Dwarf Syndrome").

But I have a big caveat... if you can get your hands on some of the 1st edition material, don't be afraid to use it. A great deal of it can be used off-the-shelf with minimal tweaking. (Fortunately, a good chunk of the smaller "classic" scenarios have already been converted to the new system, either in Plundered Vaults, as PDF downloads, or converted by fans.)

While the older-edition grognards may think back fondly of the Oldenhaller Contract as a good starting scenario, I actually consider Night of Blood (originally printed in White Dwarf #87, later reprinted in Restless Dead and Apocrypha Now) as one of the best introductory scenarios ever written.

I agree.

Oldenhaller contract is actually a bit hard on starting characters without much rules knowledge, if you run through the Night of Blood first you will have an easier time of it.

[littlebottom]

my advice?

have fun... no really, as there are lots of little bits in the rules which could be taken one way or the other, just when a problem arises say "it works like this, because i said so" and move on and keep playing, keep it dark, keep it gritty, AND DONT FORGET TO MAKE THEM ROLL THEIR WILLPOWER TO SAVE THEMSELVES FROM ALL THE INSANITY POINTS

[Matthew]

There is a massive second edition holiday sale on now at Fantasy Flight Games. I would take advantage, but shipping across the pond is probably not going to be cheap.