Help me understand Chill Touch!

[Freylorn]

This spell has confused me for a long time now, and I finally figured I would just ask about it. I like to think I have a pretty firm grasp on the rules for 3.5, but for some reason, this spell has always had me boggled.

Relevant SRD text: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillTouch.htm

So, for simplicity, let's assume a level 5 caster. Would this spell instantly deal 5 "touches" of 1d6 damage, no save, and 1 point of Str damage each? Or does it mean that the caster now has 5 "touches" available to him, each of which deals 1d6 damage +1 str?

Also, can you cast the spell and make a touch attack in the same standard action? Or does it require you to cast it one round, and then start touching the next?

Apologies if this is a boneheaded question, just been stumping me for some time now. Thanks ahead of time!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

You know...I was sure I knew the answer, but, looking over it again...well, I'm stumped to.

It has a duration of instantaneous, where more of those "hold-a-charge" spells give you an actual duration, yet it requires a touch attack per touch (interpreted from the wording, IMO). Doesn't seem like they're all at once, but I honestly have no idea.

[Keshay]

Your theoretical lvl 5 Wizard woudl have 5 seperate touches available to him. He can choose to touch different target, or the same target multiple times. Each touch requires a seperate touch attack roll. Each successful touch will deal 1d6 damage +1Str on a failed Fort save (Again a sepearte fort save will be necessary for each successful touch.)

In short: at higher levels this spell causes a LOT of dice to be rolled. And it makes for a fun mental image of a lvl 20 wizard touching a bunch of guys 20 different times in 6 seconds.

[Mojo_Rat]

You know I had thought I knew how chill touch worked, and was getting ready to post that the poset above mine was wrong.. then i re-read the SRd.


I had always thought it worked like this, You cast Chill Touch and on the first round got your 1d6 damage attack witht he str damage. Then got to make the same attack for the next 5 rounds (for a 5th level caster)

But it appears that in fact a 5th level caster would get to imediately make 5 touch attacks.

Which seems fine except it doesnt seemt to follow the same damage cap limitations that other lvl 1 spells have (ie shocking grasp at 5d6) so after lvl 5 this gets pretty strong. Given im playing a lvl 9 necromancer in my current 3.5 game i suddenly feel like exclaiming woohoo.

[kentma57]

Your theoretical lvl 5 Wizard woudl have 5 seperate touches available to him. He can choose to touch different target, or the same target multiple times. Each touch requires a seperate touch attack roll. Each successful touch will deal 1d6 damage +1Str on a failed Fort save (Again a sepearte fort save will be necessary for each successful touch.)

In short: at higher levels this spell causes a LOT of dice to be rolled. And it makes for a fun mental image of a lvl 20 wizard touching a bunch of guys 20 different times in 6 seconds.

Toss in poison spell and poison your opponent on every succesful touch attack and it only cost's one does of poison.

[SurlySeraph]

Toss in poison spell and poison your opponent on every succesful touch attack and it only cost's one does of poison.

Better yet: Fell Drain. I"ve seen an interesting Monk/Wizard build based around punching people with negative levels using Chill Touch.

[Quietus]

My interpretation is based on this :

You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.

Given that text, I read it as granting you a touch attack, with uses = caster level. Each one, being an attack, would take up an attack action, usable multiple times in a round if you have haste/high BAB. It doesn't give you a flurry of chill touches. Granted, the other interpretations are more useful to a mage, but it seems to me like a single spell shouldn't require <caster level>d6's, and 2*<caster level>d20's to be rolled in the space of a single turn. Which would be the case, given that each touch requires an attack roll, a d6 of damage, and a fortitude save.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Given that text, I read it as granting you a touch attack, with uses = caster level. Each one, being an attack, would take up an attack action, usable multiple times in a round if you have haste/high BAB. It doesn't give you a flurry of chill touches. Granted, the other interpretations are more useful to a mage, but it seems to me like a single spell shouldn't require <caster level>d6's, and 2*<caster level>d20's to be rolled in the space of a single turn. Which would be the case, given that each touch requires an attack roll, a d6 of damage, and a fortitude save.

Yeah, but look at the duration: instantaneous. That's the kicker, and that's what confuses me. Otherwise why not just cap the attacks at, say, 4ish, rather than giving you 20 attacks you can't use before the duration expires?

*is quite confuzzled*

[Akal Saris]

Better yet: Fell Drain. I"ve seen an interesting Monk/Wizard build based around punching people with negative levels using Chill Touch.

Even better, do both :D

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Yeah, but look at the duration: instantaneous. That's the kicker, and that's what confuses me. Otherwise why not just cap the attacks at, say, 4ish, rather than giving you 20 attacks you can't use before the duration expires?

*is quite confuzzled*

shocking grasp also has a duration of instantaneous and yet you can chose to hold the charge, as described somewhere*, and use it in another round, why is it so odd that it works the same for chill touch, except that you hold 5 charges?
I find the reasoning that it would give you 5 attacks a lot weirder, almost nothing gives you extra attacks, not to mention that many.


Edit: *it's under actions in combat.

[Wagadodo]

Every time I have used Chill touch, I only use it once around, but let the charge hold over for multiple rounds. Or attacks as the case may be.

[TheOOB]

The actions in combat section, mentioned above, covers it. Basically after you cast touch spells you can hold the charge indefinitely until you fully discharge it. Casting a touch spell gives you one free touch attack against the opponent the round you cast it, but additional touch attacks will require more actions.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

shocking grasp also has a duration of instantaneous and yet you can chose to hold the charge, as described somewhere*, and use it in another round, why is it so odd that it works the same for chill touch, except that you hold 5 charges?
I find the reasoning that it would give you 5 attacks a lot weirder, almost nothing gives you extra attacks, not to mention that many.


Edit: *it's under actions in combat.

Ah. There we go. I didn't remember that little bit in the Actions in Combat section that discusses holding a charge. Hence my confusion with the wording. Thank you for clarifying.

...although you'd think WotC would have made some mention of it in the description of the spell itself...

[good_lookin_gus]

So would your Familiar get to deliver multiple touch attacks? Would it have to come in contact with you in between each one??

[sofawall]

Yeah, but look at the duration: instantaneous. That's the kicker, and that's what confuses me. Otherwise why not just cap the attacks at, say, 4ish, rather than giving you 20 attacks you can't use before the duration expires?

*is quite confuzzled*

Outside of the rules quoted above, instantaneous allows you hold the charge forever, with no chance of it being dispelled. The only way it will disappear is when all uses are used up.

Adding the rules quoted above (which I didn't want to look up), the only thing different is the spell can also discharge by touching something or casting another spell.

[Emy]

So would your Familiar get to deliver multiple touch attacks?

Yes.

Would it have to come in contact with you in between each one??

No.

Note that natural weapons can also deliver touch attacks. So if you have, say, a housecat familiar, and give it a chill touch, each time it hits with a natural weapon (it has two claws) it'll deliver one touch from chill touch.

(This is one of the reasons Beguilers [the critter, not the class] rule.)

[icefractal]

Sorry to go off topic - I've seen several references to Beguiler as a creature/race, but what the heck are they? And which book are they from?

[Ponce]

Maybe it's meant for Sorcerer/Monk multiclass characters. In core.

...

... what?

[sofawall]

Sorry to go off topic - I've seen several references to Beguiler as a creature/race, but what the heck are they? And which book are they from?

Shining South. They are Pikachu with fairly decent (read, awesome) stat mods and racial True Seeing, always active.

[Emy]

Sorry to go off topic - I've seen several references to Beguiler as a creature/race, but what the heck are they? And which book are they from?

Shining South, one of the Forgotten Realms supplements. Page 60.

They're Pikachu-ish magical beasts, which can speak. They have a prehensile tail they can hold things (including weapons) in, poor Str, great Dex, good Int, a racial bonus to Hide (while dry), and Multiattack as a racial bonus feat. Oh also they have always-on True Seeing (!!!). Their LA is +0 (cohort), but you can also get one as an Improved Familiar.

I got beaten like Team Rocket :|

[sofawall]

Shining South, one of the Forgotten Realms supplements. Page 60.

They're Pikachu-ish magical beasts, which can speak. They have a prehensile tail they can hold things (including weapons) in, poor Str, great Dex, good Int, a racial bonus to Hide (while dry), and Multiattack as a racial bonus feat. Oh also they have always-on True Seeing (!!!). Their LA is +0 (cohort), but you can also get one as an Improved Familiar.

I got beaten like Team Rocket :|

I played one once. A DM let me use the LA for cohort as LA for player, just because I was playing a pikachu you cannot see, wearing mittens, holding a lantern in its tail, and sneak attacking.(factotum).

[Emy]

I played one once. A DM let me use the LA for cohort as LA for player, just because I was playing a pikachu you cannot see, wearing mittens, holding a lantern in its tail, and sneak attacking.(factotum).

Why the lantern?