Lycanthrope Questions [3.5]

[Starscream]

Hey, I've been cruising the SRD out of boredom, and I just read the article on Lycanthrope, which I had only skimmed before. I wasn't aware that it could be combined with any sort of animal, so I've been brainstorming up interesting combinations of race/class/wereform that would be fun to try.

But I have a few questions about the whole process that I was hoping the superior gaming minds of the Playground could clear up for me.

1) Is there a list of which animals are prone to which alignments? The SRD has wolf, rat, bear and so on, and I think I've seen crocodile and a few others in various supplements. But other than a vague claim that animals perceived as "noble" tend to be good, and "sinister" ones tend to be evil, I have no idea what the logic for determining it is. I would never have assumed that wolves are considered more evil than bears for example.

2) Is there any way, long term, to prevent your alignment from changing? When you change you make a will save with a DC of 15 + the number of times you have changed. This means that eventually even someone with truly epic will saves is going to fail and have their alignment permanently altered. Are there any class features, spells, etc that can prevent this? Certain classes don't work with certain alignments, so this is important to consider.

3) Is it better to be a "natural" lycanthrope or an afflicted one? The natural one has better DR, no need for Control Shape rolls, and doesn't need to worry about someone casting Remove Curse or Break Enchantment and robbing them of their powers. On the other hand, you are limited to a single alignment and have a higher LA.

4) Just how good are were-whatevers as characters anyway? No spellcaster worth his cantrips ever plays anything with a level adjustment, but even a martial character is going to need to take some animal HD, and that's no fun. You do get feats and movement modes and natural armor and attacks. I can certainly think of avantages to being able to change size at will. And some of the physical ability adjustments are downright drool-worthy. What classes go good with what animals?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hey, I've been cruising the SRD out of boredom, and I just read the article on Lycanthrope, which I had only skimmed before. I wasn't aware that it could be combined with any sort of animal, so I've been brainstorming up interesting combinations of race/class/wereform that would be fun to try.

But I have a few questions about the whole process that I was hoping the superior gaming minds of the Playground could clear up for me.

1) Is there a list of which animals are prone to which alignments? The SRD has wolf, rat, bear and so on, and I think I've seen crocodile and a few others in various supplements. But other than a vague claim that animals perceived as "noble" tend to be good, and "sinister" ones tend to be evil, I have no idea what the logic for determining it is. I would never have assumed that wolves are considered more evil than bears for example.

2) Is there any way, long term, to prevent your alignment from changing? When you change you make a will save with a DC of 15 + the number of times you have changed. This means that eventually even someone with truly epic will saves is going to fail and have their alignment permanently altered. Are there any class features, spells, etc that can prevent this? Certain classes don't work with certain alignments, so this is important to consider.

3) Is it better to be a "natural" lycanthrope or an afflicted one? The natural one has better DR, no need for Control Shape rolls, and doesn't need to worry about someone casting Remove Curse or Break Enchantment and robbing them of their powers. On the other hand, you are limited to a single alignment and have a higher LA.

4) Just how good are were-whatevers as characters anyway? No spellcaster worth his cantrips ever plays anything with a level adjustment, but even a martial character is going to need to take some animal HD, and that's no fun. You do get feats and movement modes and natural armor and attacks. I can certainly think of avantages to being able to change size at will. And some of the physical ability adjustments are downright drool-worthy. What classes go good with what animals?

1) I don't know if such list exist so that's up to you and your DM, though I suggest you look at folklore (sp?) and myths about animals, maybe that would help you. Also the SRD says that you can assign aligments to lycanthropes at your whim

2) Since I play with no.aligment restriction I can't answer this.

3)I enjoy Natural lycanthropes more than the afflicted ones, the DR is just good, and as for the LA some builds MAY not mind them

4) You are right no caster would be lycanthrope on their right mind (unless they are gestalt, in which case I think it is even better) but Martial characters would enjoy them, the great physical stat bonus, scent, low liwght vision (and Iron will as a bonus feat) are IMO a good adition to any martial character. I think ToB classes might enjoy them more since their animal HD count towards their initiatior level.

Sadly some of the best things on lycanthropes, the abilities such as pounce, poison, that the animal has are not available to the lycanthrope in question if he isn't in animal form.

BUT there is a way, the black blood hunter Prg class (form the Player's Guide to Faerûn appenix) at level 3 gives you imporved hybrid form, noy you can use all your animal abilities in hybrid form (it also lets you cast in animal form a la natural spell but since no non-gestalt caster would loose at least 5 CL wiliingly I dont see it as a viable option[minimin CL loss from lycanthropy is 3 (1 HD+2 LA for afflicted ones) and 2 for the BBH lvls that let you cast in animal form

[Starbuck_II]

3) Is it better to be a "natural" lycanthrope or an afflicted one? The natural one has better DR, no need for Control Shape rolls, and doesn't need to worry about someone casting Remove Curse or Break Enchantment and robbing them of their powers. On the other hand, you are limited to a single alignment and have a higher LA.

Do you want to spread the disease?
Only Naturals can spread it. afflicted ones cannot. Thems the rules.

[hewhosaysfish]

1) Is there a list of which animals are prone to which alignments? The SRD has wolf, rat, bear and so on, and I think I've seen crocodile and a few others in various supplements. But other than a vague claim that animals perceived as "noble" tend to be good, and "sinister" ones tend to be evil, I have no idea what the logic for determining it is. I would never have assumed that wolves are considered more evil than bears for example.

Read that paragraph again. "This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself"
These is no logic determining it. The writers just asked themselves the same question you did: "Are bears good or evil?" and pulled an answer out of their collective butt. You are supposed to do the same: "the Dungeon Master can arbitrarily assign the alignment of the animal form."
Sure you came up with a different answer to the bears-vs-wolves question than the authors did. But that's just because they read literature that said nice things about bears and you didn't.

2) Is there any way, long term, to prevent your alignment from changing? When you change you make a will save with a DC of 15 + the number of times you have changed. This means that eventually even someone with truly epic will saves is going to fail and have their alignment permanently altered. Are there any class features, spells, etc that can prevent this? Certain classes don't work with certain alignments, so this is important to consider.

There is the Moonguard PrC from the web-enhancement for CompDiv. For Good divine casters.

[pres_man]

One thing to consider when trying to decide the alignment is, would a noble have one of these animals on his coat of arms? If not, you can probably guess that the "collective consciousness" would view a were- version as "evil". Those that would show up on a coat of arms are probably viewed as "good". Size of the animal and the social dynamics of the species probably also play a part in this. But in the end, it is ultimately subjective and thus each group has to go with their own interpretation. One thing to keep in mind, technically it isn't any kind of animal, they have to be "any predator, scavenger, or omnivore ".

[jmbrown]

1) Is there a list of which animals are prone to which alignments? The SRD has wolf, rat, bear and so on, and I think I've seen crocodile and a few others in various supplements. But other than a vague claim that animals perceived as "noble" tend to be good, and "sinister" ones tend to be evil, I have no idea what the logic for determining it is. I would never have assumed that wolves are considered more evil than bears for example.

As others have said, the alignment is based on perceptions. In medieval Europe, the wolf was feared hence the "chaotic evil" reflection in the monster manual. There's no hard rules saying a level 1 paladin that contracts lycanthropy from a wolf instantly falls because his alignment changes unless you the DM rule that wolves must be evil.

3) Is it better to be a "natural" lycanthrope or an afflicted one? The natural one has better DR, no need for Control Shape rolls, and doesn't need to worry about someone casting Remove Curse or Break Enchantment and robbing them of their powers. On the other hand, you are limited to a single alignment and have a higher LA.

Neither. A good character aware of his affliction would refrain from biting which reduces his effectiveness. Lycanthropy is still a curse and spreading it isn't exactly noble. As an affliction it's too bothersome to be effective and you're better off breaking the curse.

[Starbuck_II]

Neither. A good character aware of his affliction would refrain from biting which reduces his effectiveness. Lycanthropy is still a curse and spreading it isn't exactly noble. As an affliction it's too bothersome to be effective and you're better off breaking the curse.

Afflicted Lycans can't spread the disease by biting. Only Naturals can.

[jmbrown]

Afflicted Lycans can't spread the disease by biting. Only Naturals can.

A bit of mis-wording on my part but a natural lycanthrope is still afflicted with a "curse" it just can't be removed.

[Starscream]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I have a much better idea of what I'm going to do now.

Never would have found that Moonguard PrC by myself. A 1 level dip is just what I need to bypass the whole alignment issue.

[hamishspence]

Faerun is a bit more relaxed on the "werewolves are evil" thing.

Mostly with elven natural lycanthrope werewolves (lythari) however, the Grey Wolf tribe in Silver Marches are human werewolves who don't have to be evil, and Champions of Valor has a good aligned human werewolf.

So, at least in some D&D settings, Always Chaotic Evil does not apply.

[AshDesert]

Faerun is a bit more relaxed on the "werewolves are evil" thing.

Mostly with elven natural lycanthrope werewolves (lythari) however, the Grey Wolf tribe in Silver Marches are human werewolves who don't have to be evil, and Champions of Valor has a good aligned human werewolf.

So, at least in some D&D settings, Always Chaotic Evil does not apply.

There was a thread here a bit ago about how "Always" is misleading since it simply refers to the natural state of species in question, and that it's more like "Always, except with a few individuals".

A non-evil werewolf is a unique individual in most campaign settings. In campaigns were they aren't, there are groups that are unique (i.e. groups of non-evil werewolves but werewolves are still naturally evil).