Counterspelling

[Kelb_Panthera]

So here's a question, how would one go about optimizing a spellcaster as a counter-spelling master? any non campaign specific books excluding Unearthed Arcana, + Races of Ebberon, Magic of Eberron, ECS and FRCS.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Generally, serious damage capability and readied actions. 10d6 Fireball(one of the weakest spells in the game for damage) forces a conc check of DC 45+spell level. That ain't happening.

If you really want to counterspell, there's a feat(possibly an ACF) that allows a Sorc to counterspell with a spell of the same school but one level higher. Use that, Rapid Metamagic, Heighten Spell, and a wide variety of cantrips to Counterspell anything at the cost of spell slots.

[Keld Denar]

The most important thing about counterspelling is to do it in such a way that it doesn't consume your standard action each round. This means grabbing feats like Divine Defiance (FCII) and spells like Battlemagic Perception (Heroes of Battle) and Duel Ward (PHBII, I think). Also, GREATER Rings of Counterspelling from the DMGII (reprinted in MIC, IIRC) also allow for immediate action counterspelling.

Beyond that, there is covering your bases for counterspelling. Beyond Improved Counterspell, there is always the option to use (Greater) Dispel Magic for counterspelling. There are a number of ways to increase your caster level and get bonuses to Dispel Magic, which will increase your sucess rate. Among them are Master Specialist (Abjurer) (CMage), the Inquisition Domain (CDivine), the Purification Domain (CDivine), and a Dispelling Cord (MIC).

I built a really fun build with Cleric and Warlock going into Eldritch Disciple who comboed Divine Defiance with Voracious Dispelling for some pretty awesome magic control...something to look into.

[Noodles2375]

"Evocation Sense (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a warmage can recognize the material, somatic, and verbal component of evocation spells. The warmage gains a +1 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify an evocation spell being cast by another creature. See Spellcraft on pg. 82 of the Player's Handbook. This bonus increases by +1 at 4th, 5th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 17th, 18th, and 19th level."

From:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

If you're willing to be a warmage, WotC acknowledges that this "dead level" patch is a really good way to do counterspelling. Unfortunately you're basically restricted to countering evocations. I guess it bears mentioning though.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

"Evocation Sense (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a warmage can recognize the material, somatic, and verbal component of evocation spells. The warmage gains a +1 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify an evocation spell being cast by another creature. See Spellcraft on pg. 82 of the Player's Handbook. This bonus increases by +1 at 4th, 5th, 9th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 17th, 18th, and 19th level."

From:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

If you're willing to be a warmage, WotC acknowledges that this "dead level" patch is a really good way to do counterspelling. Unfortunately you're basically restricted to countering evocations. I guess it bears mentioning though.

The spellcraft check is the least of your worries. By level 6, you'll have a +11, minimum, as a Sorc. +16 as a Wizard. The highest check you'll need to make is DC 18. By level 10, you nearly auto it. And that's without feats, spells, custom items, or Aid Another.

Plus, who wants to be a Warmage?

[PhoenixRivers]

Good classes:

Master Specialist (Abjuration). Get 1/2 your PrC levels added to your Dispel Checks.

Good Items:
Dispelling Cord (MiC). +2 to a dispel check, 5 times per day. And it's dirt cheap.

Ring of Spell-Battle (Comp Mage): Auto Identify any spell cast within 60 feet? Redirect 1 spell per day? One of the few ways to make a Disjunction Backfire.

Ring of Enduring Arcana (MIC): +4 CL to resist dispelling. Because it's bad when it happens to you.

Good feats:

Planar handbook has one that gives you the domain power of a domain. Choose Inquisition domain for a +4 to dispel checks.

There's a feat (either in Comp Mage, Comp Arcane, or PHb2) that allows you to take 10 on caster level checks. That makes things pretty good on the CL check.

If you enter Master Specialist at level 4, then at level 10? You'll have a Guaranteed Dispel check that will counter any spell up to the following:

10 (Caster level) + 3 (Master Specialist) + 2 (Dispelling Cord) + 4 (Inquisition domain) + 10 (Take 10) = 29, which will dispel an 18th level caster.

By level 14, it's up to a CL 20 caster, with a level 3 dispel. This means that your level 3 Dispel Magic will stop a Time Stop in its tracks. Your Greater Dispel will hit up to CL 24. Have fun.

[Pluto]

Doesn't Complete Champion let a Wizard replace a bonus feat with a Domain ability?

Inquisition Domain (CDiv, SpC) gives +4 to dispel checks.

There's a feat (either in Comp Mage, Comp Arcane, or PHb2) that allows you to take 10 on caster level checks. That makes things pretty good on the CL check.

Arcane Mastery, I believe. Complete Arcane.

[PhoenixRivers]

When I return to my house, I'll post a link to a rather superior dispel/counterspell resource, posted by someone with a similar mindset.

[Eldariel]

Well, there's this at least.

[PhoenixRivers]

That would be it.

[Darrin]

Doesn't Complete Champion let a Wizard replace a bonus feat with a Domain ability?

Inquisition Domain (CDiv, SpC) gives +4 to dispel checks.


Arcane Mastery, I believe. Complete Arcane.

Also, Planar Touchstone linked to the Catalogues of Enlightenment will give you a Domain power of your choice.

Hellborn race (FCII) gets Devil's Favor as a bonus feat, which gives you a +2 untyped bonus on any check (including dispel/caster level checks) a certain number of times per day.

[Volkov]

Improved counterspelling is a must. Also, a large amount of spells per day helps greatly. You will need to generalize to counter all spells though. Which hurts your spells per day.

[Sliver]

Unfortunately you're basically restricted to countering evocations.

If you are willing to go Warmage, and you want to mess other casters, then ready the action to blast, instead of counterspell.

[Maryring]

All this and no mention of the Archmage? Well-well-well.

Counterspells

It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
How Counterspells Work

To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.

To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.
Counterspelling Metamagic Spells

Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered
Specific Exceptions

Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell

You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell.

Here's the deal. Only Dispel Magic needs to succeed on a dispel check to successfully counterspell. All other spells automatically succeed. Read the info above and you will find it to be true. (You'll also find that the spellcraft check is a bit more difficult than initially thought.)

Now, take a look at Improved Counterspell.

Improved Counterspell [General]
Benefit

When counterspelling, you may use a spell of the same school that is one or more spell levels higher than the target spell.

See? That one works on exactly the same level as regular counterspelling. In other words, it always succeeds to use Disintegrate to counterspell Polymorph.

Now, here is the best part. From the Archmage high arcana.

Mastery of Counterspelling

When the archmage counterspells a spell, it is turned back upon the caster as if it were fully affected by a spell turning spell. If the spell cannot be affected by spell turning, then it is merely counterspelled. This ability costs one 7th-level spell slot.

In other words, you can turn your dispel and other counterspells into spell-turning effects and thus derive a greater benefit from your counterspelling. It's a good strategy that does not go into borderline broken, and hopefully of use for you.

[AslanCross]

The Cleric is actually a pretty good base for the counterspell build, as it has access to Divine Defiance (FCII). It allows you to counterspell as an immediate action by burning a turn attempt.

[PhoenixRivers]

Here's the deal. Only Dispel Magic needs to succeed on a dispel check to successfully counterspell. All other spells automatically succeed. Read the info above and you will find it to be true. (You'll also find that the spellcraft check is a bit more difficult than initially thought.)

You'll also find that the dispel check (as shown above) can be made to always succeed against targets within about 9 CR of you.

Now, take a look at Improved Counterspell.



See? That one works on exactly the same level as regular counterspelling. In other words, it always succeeds to use Disintegrate to counterspell Polymorph.

Yes, you can use a 5th level spell to counter a 4th. This is the LESS good way to do it.

With the other? You can use a 3rd level spell (Dispel Magic) to counter any spell up to 9th. Your method? Well, you gotta match the enemy level +1, so what happens when they cast a level 9 spell?

Using dispel is more efficient.

Now, here is the best part. From the Archmage high arcana.

In other words, you can turn your dispel and other counterspells into spell-turning effects and thus derive a greater benefit from your counterspelling. It's a good strategy that does not go into borderline broken, and hopefully of use for you.

And that Acm ability works equally well with Dispel counters.

[Douglas]

No mention of Reactive Counterspell from Player's Guide to Faerun yet? Sure, it still takes up one of your turns, but you can decide who and what to counter on the spot rather than having to specify your target in advance, and if no one casts something you want to counter you can just let it past and take your turn normally rather than it being wasted, and it doesn't take up any per day limited resource or discharge a spell.

[Person_Man]

What Keld said.

If web material is allowed a Cold Iron Warrior is quite good at Dispelling. Something like Fighter 1/Paladin 4 (with the Serenty feat to make your abilities Wis based)/Cold Iron Warrior 6 with the Practiced Caster feat gets 10 + their Wisdom bonus to Dispel Magic checks, plus Turn Undead to fuel Divine Defiance, plus great Saves, Mind Over Magic (Spell Turning), and a small but very anti-caster spell list.

Also, Runescarred Berserker from Unapproachable East grants access to Antimagic Field at ECL 16 (plus several other very strong spells, full BAB, and Barbarian abilities) which is pretty much the ultimate win button against casters, if that's what you're interested in.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Good classes:
Good Items:
Dispelling Cord (MiC). +2 to a dispel check, 5 times per day. And it's dirt cheap.

Ring of Spell-Battle (Comp Mage): Auto Identify any spell cast within 60 feet? Redirect 1 spell per day? One of the few ways to make a Disjunction Backfire.

Ring of Enduring Arcana (MIC): +4 CL to resist dispelling. Because it's bad when it happens to you.

Good feats:

Planar handbook has one that gives you the domain power of a domain. Choose Inquisition domain for a +4 to dispel checks.

There's a feat (either in Comp Mage, Comp Arcane, or PHb2) that allows you to take 10 on caster level checks. That makes things pretty good on the CL check.

If you enter Master Specialist at level 4, then at level 10? You'll have a Guaranteed Dispel check that will counter any spell up to the following:

10 (Caster level) + 3 (Master Specialist) + 2 (Dispelling Cord) + 4 (Inquisition domain) + 10 (Take 10) = 29, which will dispel an 18th level caster.

By level 14, it's up to a CL 20 caster, with a level 3 dispel. This means that your level 3 Dispel Magic will stop a Time Stop in its tracks. Your Greater Dispel will hit up to CL 24. Have fun.

Does any of that work with a warlocks dmg/dispell thing?

And or can a warlocks invocation ever match a true dispell?

Always wanted to make a dispeller(both fullcaster and or a warlock)

[PhoenixRivers]

Does any of that work with a warlocks dmg/dispell thing?

And or can a warlocks invocation ever match a true dispell?

Always wanted to make a dispeller(both fullcaster and or a warlock)

If you're gonna go that route, DFA can do good things dispelling with their breath weapon.