Tough first session for the new guy

[ken-do-nim]

I had a new guy join my gaming group this past Saturday. We run Rules Cyclopedia D&D with my house rules, and he rolled up a pair of dwarves (I'm letting everybody play 2 characters). At the end of the session after a tense fight with skeletons and a shadow, we called it a night. One of his dwarves was down to 1 hp. As everybody is packing up to head out, he decides to have his character make a heal check to restore a few hit points. Well, in RC D&D, where you want to roll low on skill checks, if you roll a 20 on a heal check, you accidentally inflict 1-3 damage to yourself. We'd even joked about hoping this wouldn't happen to anyone earlier in the session. As luck would have it, he rolled a 20. Then I rolled a 3 for damage, bringing him to -2 hit points. In my house rules, this means make a save vs death at -2. Dwarves have great saves to start, so with the penalty he only needed to roll a 10. He rolled a 9. Failing the death save means a 50% chance to die right away and a 50% chance to go into a down-and-dying state (from which friends can rescue you). Naturally I roll low and his dwarf died on the spot. Talk about every roll going the wrong way.

Man, what a lame way to die, but very memorable.

[dsmiles]

Nice. I bet he's thinking twice about playing with you guys again.

[Sir.Swindle]

Well at least now the other dwarf has a dead brother to avenge, along with the dead one's identical twin of course.

[ken-do-nim]

Nice. I bet he's thinking twice about playing with you guys again.

Yeah, I hope that's not the case but I don't like fudging die rolls. He did complain about the rule of rolling a 20 and doing damage to yourself, but he knew the risks before he made the roll.

[Tyndmyr]

Seems like a wonky set of rules...but eh, dying happens.

[ocdscale]

...Well, in RC D&D, where you want to roll low on skill checks, if you roll a 20 on a heal check, you accidentally inflict 1-3 damage to yourself.
...
In my house rules, this means make a save vs death at -2. Dwarves have great saves to start, so with the penalty he only needed to roll a 10. He rolled a 9.
...
Failing the death save means a 50% chance to die right away and a 50% chance to go into a down-and-dying state (from which friends can rescue you). Naturally I roll low and his dwarf died on the spot. Talk about every roll going the wrong way.

As Liz Lemon put it, okay that just seems intentionally confusing.
High means he hurts himself, then low means he fails the save, then low means he dies. I'm not familiar with RC D&D though, at least he has a story to tell.

[Tyndmyr]

I'd be annoyed if I died because of a combination of odd house rules and non-standard variant stuff, honestly. Now I need to roll high, now I need to roll low...tis confusing.

And saving vs death for failing a heal check is bad enough. Saving with a negative 1 modifier for every negative hp(which appears to be the case) is brutal. It strikes me that this will result in a *lot* of people dying when they go into negative hp.

Early level combat is already lethal, and rocket tag like enough. No need to make it more so.

[Starbuck_II]

As Liz Lemon put it, okay that just seems intentionally confusing.
High means he hurts himself, then low means he fails the save, then low means he dies. I'm not familiar with RC D&D though, at least he has a story to tell.

Old D&D was never consistent. Sometimes low was bad and sometimes it was good (2nd edition used low was good for AC).

[toddex]

Old D&D was never consistent. Sometimes low was bad and sometimes it was good (2nd edition used low was good for AC).

No one is arguing against that, just saying that if this man is using 3.5 those are some retarded house rules.

[ken-do-nim]

No one is arguing against that, just saying that if this man is using 3.5 those are some retarded house rules.

Which I'm not. RC D&D is lethal - btb you die when you reach 0 hp. The part about going negative but allowing a save is my house rules.

[sofawall]

No one is arguing against that, just saying that if this man is using 3.5 those are some retarded house rules.

His first post says he isn't.

[PinkysBrain]

Just curious, why are you rolling his checks and saves?

[Rixx]

Just curious, why are you rolling his checks and saves?

In old D&D, characters didn't roll their own saving throws. They didn't even know what their saving throw modifiers were.

[ken-do-nim]

Just curious, why are you rolling his checks and saves?

He rolled his failed skill check, I rolled the damage, he rolled his failed save, then as he hunted through the books and the house rules doc looking for a prayer, I rolled the "coin flip" live-or-die roll.

[RebelRogue]

In old D&D, characters didn't roll their own saving throws. They didn't even know what their saving throw modifiers were.

I dunno about the very first versions, but in OD&D you have a flat DC for each type of save (there's 5 different ones) depending on level and class. You can add ability modifiers to the roll as an optional rule, but in general, there's little tampering going on. And generally, the players roll their own saves (although this could of course easily be houseruled).

And BTW, when you're familiar with OD&D, it's pretty much second nature to know rolling high = good except for skills (which are another optional rule). The rest is houserules, as noted. It's not exactly consistent, but it's not too bad.

[Animefunkmaster]

Dwarves have great saves to start, so with the penalty he only needed to roll a 10. He rolled a 9.

Out of Curiosity was that "he needed to roll a 10 on a d20"? Because that doesn't seem like dwarves have GREAT saves, but rather .5 above average.

[Inhuman Bot]

Yeah, I hope that's not the case but I don't like fudging die rolls. He did complain about the rule of rolling a 20 and doing damage to yourself, but he knew the risks before he made the roll.

What was his choice? Auto-dieing or that?

[RebelRogue]

Out of Curiosity was that "he needed to roll a 10 on a d20"? Because that doesn't seem like dwarves have GREAT saves, but rather .5 above average.

8 vs. Death Ray/Poison was actually the best possible starting save. Yes, those were rough times (failing to save vs. poison meant instant death most of the time).

At higher levels, the opposite effect happened: you almost never failed a saving throw. Fear of SoD effects was somewhat lower then

[ken-do-nim]

I dunno about the very first versions, but in OD&D you have a flat DC for each type of save (there's 5 different ones) depending on level and class. You can add ability modifiers to the roll as an optional rule, but in general, there's little tampering going on. And generally, the players roll their own saves (although this could of course easily be houseruled).

We do use the rule to add ability modifiers to the saves, but in this case since constitution already gives you hit points to avoid death, it would be double dipping to allow it to affect this save.

Out of Curiosity was that "he needed to roll a 10 on a d20"? Because that doesn't seem like dwarves have GREAT saves, but rather .5 above average.

10 on a d20 yes, but most other classes at 1st level would have needed to roll a 16 or 17.

What was his choice? Auto-dieing or that?

He was at 1 hit point and the party was heading back to town. He could have hoped to get out of the dungeon safely, then get a good night's rest to regain hit points. He didn't have to make a heal check.

[AFS]

We do use the rule to add ability modifiers to the saves, but in this case since constitution already gives you hit points to avoid death, it would be double dipping to allow it to affect this save.



10 on a d20 yes, but most other classes at 1st level would have needed to roll a 16 or 17.



He was at 1 hit point and the party was heading back to town. He could have hoped to get out of the dungeon safely, then get a good night's rest to regain hit points. He didn't have to make a heal check.

What is the point of the HEAL skill if it doesn't heal?

That is like saying you can't jump while using the jump skill. Just imagine the dramatic moment as Dwarg the Dwarf goes for this long jump to jump over this ever so annoying puddle of water,,,,ohhhhh epic fail he slipped in the puddle and died. You didn't have to jump ya know!

[Starbuck_II]

What is the point of the HEAL skill if it doesn't heal?

That is like saying you can't jump while using the jump skill. Just imagine the dramatic moment as Dwarg the Dwarf goes for this long jump to jump over this ever so annoying puddle of water,,,,ohhhhh epic fail he slipped in the puddle and died. You didn't have to jump ya know!

No, heal does heal you, but he critical fumbled (never liked those concepts personally).

[Zephyros]

In the long history of ridiculously hard and annoying first-sessions-with-a-new-group, I think this guy did fine; he, at least, made his own choices and had a character alive at the end of the day.

I've had some pretty rough (horrid) first sessions as a new player:

a. The how-it-should-be-done DM: Once, I joined the D&D group of a rock-band I used to be a part of. Firstly, I roll 4d6b3 (whereas the rest of the party -unbeknown to me- got a 5d6b3 and a free d6 to add around) and I am forced to place my 8 in CON. As a rogue. Talk about easily knocked-out character. Mostly annoying.
b. Rival player thinks you hit on the DM! : This guy was actually pretty funny. I am introduced to their group by the female DM (novelty!) and that dude proceeds to have me prepare two new characters 'cause he killed the first and the second at the time the DM tried to introduce them to their party. He even justified it with RP when the DM told him he was being an ass. As a result, the third character I set up was a Wizard with Contigent Spell, a huge dislike against invasions of his personal space, and already 3 of the slave-spells (from MoF) crafted as contigencies. It went downhill with him after that

[Levithix]

In the long history of ridiculously hard and annoying first-sessions-with-a-new-group, I think this guy did fine; he, at least, made his own choices and had a character alive at the end of the day.

I've had some pretty rough (horrid) first sessions as a new player:

a. The how-it-should-be-done DM: Once, I joined the D&D group of a rock-band I used to be a part of. Firstly, I roll 4d6b3 (whereas the rest of the party -unbeknown to me- got a 5d6b3 and a free d6 to add around) and I am forced to place my 8 in CON. As a rogue. Talk about easily knocked-out character. Mostly annoying.
b. Rival player thinks you hit on the DM! : This guy was actually pretty funny. I am introduced to their group by the female DM (novelty!) and that dude proceeds to have me prepare two new characters 'cause he killed the first and the second at the time the DM tried to introduce them to their party. He even justified it with RP when the DM told him he was being an ass. As a result, the third character I set up was a Wizard with Contigent Spell, a huge dislike against invasions of his personal space, and already 3 of the slave-spells (from MoF) crafted as contigencies. It went downhill with him after that

story b = win

[Shazbot79]

Old D&D was never consistent. Sometimes low was bad and sometimes it was good (2nd edition used low was good for AC).

Which is why most of us left old D&D behind.

The funny thing is that I bet the op was pestering this guy to play for quite a while.

[Totally Guy]

Can you explain narratively how he died. I think I understand it mechanically but how does it translate into in-game death?

[crimson77]

Can you explain narratively how he died. I think I understand it mechanically but how does it translate into in-game death?

If it was my game, i would say that he tried to apply bandages to his wounds. While he was dressing his wounds, with little help from his comrades, he was unable to stop the bleeding. He began to feel tired, thinking he stopped the bleeding, he lay down not knowing that his tiredness was due to blood loss and not fatigue. He never woke up.

Another version could be miss using some herbs or injesting too much of a certain kind of herb.

[GolemsVoice]

Well, I guess he was bleeding heavily, but not life-threateningly. While trying to patch himself up, he failed so badly that he ripped his wounds open instead of closing them. How this means instant death, I'm not sure, though.

I personally would dislike this very much, and would dislike playing in that type of game, but that's just personal preference. Considering the game he was playing, that's just what happens, and there's nothing to be done about it. Either he learns to accept this (you didn't willfully destroy his character, after all) and rolls up a new character, who may now be wiser, or he doesn't and leaves. Either way, your problem solves itself. Though maybe you shouldn't be so "told-you-so" about him making the heal check. That's natural for a player, and if he had tried to get out with only one HP left, and would have been ambushed, it would be much the same.

[Steelblood]

Sounds like the time my wife nat 1ed a disarm check then a nat 1 reflex to avoid the dart followed by a nat 1 to resist the purple worm poison. The DM was quite discriptive about her turning into a puddle of black goo.

[Demented]

You are attempting to improve the condition of your wounds.
Which of the following most likely applies to you?

A. You have broken a bone in your arm. You attempt to set it so that it can be bandaged, but dislodge a minute piece of bone which ultimately causes a fatal embolism in your brain.

B. You have a large gash. After taking a few shots of your favorite liquor to ease the pain, you proceed to stitch closed the wound, puncturing a major artery in the process.

C. You have a bleeding head wound. Moderately unnerved at the sight of blood, you stop the bleeding by applying a tourniquet to your neck!

[Zincorium]

I have a problem with dying from anything except someone dangerous attempting to kill you. If an expert (or at least notably good) swordsman manages to stick a sword into your throat, or you zig instead of zag against a dragon's fire breath, a good player won't have too many qualms. But this was supposed to be something beneficial. It's like an NPC carrying poisons that say 'healing potion' on them- basically a backstab without a thief.

Don't count on this guy ever relying on healing checks. Or most skill checks, for that matter. "Why would I want to jump? If I drink my potion of fly, that I spent good money to identify after finding, then at least I know I'll get across. Is 5% chance of dying outright worth a few gold?"

If you wanted a tomb of horrors mentality in this guy, he's probably on his way.