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2009-12-10, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Brasilia, Brazil
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Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Sup, Guys?
Now, before I am ninja'd on a thread I am starting: Monkey Grip sucks. No arguments here.
But I had the strangest idea yesterday. In the end, it does not even relate well with monkey grip, but the sucky feat gave me an idea: Would you guys invest in a feat which allows someone to PA as 2handing a weapon while only wielding it with one hand only?
I mean, would this make Sword N' Board slightly more viable? Abusable? I dunno. I need OP on this.
Let's face these situations:
Same 5th lvl Fighter with 18 str and PA.
Situation A) Good and old Greatsword for maximum PA possible. Bonus to hit: +4, damage: 2d6+16, average 23 points of damage.
Situation B) New feat with Longsword and maximum PA possible: Bonus to hit: +4, damage: 1d8+14, average 18,5 points of damage.
The difference is an average of 4,5 points of damage per round, compared with a +2 to AC and a Feat.
Any thoughts on this?Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
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Originally Posted by Dyllan
Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
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2009-12-10, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Hamilton, ON
- Gender
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
My only thought on this is that your use of a comma in place of a decimal fills me with rage.
... I jest!
But yes, this would be a feat every power-attacker would take. The problem is that you've now made the "large shield + longsword + this feat" strategy the new win combo that everyone uses.Last edited by Ponce; 2009-12-10 at 02:24 AM.
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Let's Play: Siege of Avalon
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2009-12-10, 02:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
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2009-12-10, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- Edmonton, Canada
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Interesting! Sounds like something I'd try out.
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2009-12-10, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
well how would it effect TWF which now gets 2x on both its hands....
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2009-12-10, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Hamilton, ON
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
I reconsidered my post shortly after making it, but I still think fighters in particular would be more inclined to use two-handed weapons combined with tactical feats (your tripomancers, for instance) since they convey a bonus in the opposed checks + reach which is often more important than a shield for conventional fighter builds. Oh, and spiked chain is still as holy as the tome of battle.
"...short, wrinkled, and superfluous." Yes... yes.
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Let's Play: Siege of Avalon
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2009-12-10, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Still pretty pointless with animated shields around.
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2009-12-10, 02:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
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2009-12-10, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
It would definitely up the damage on an uber-charger, but using it to TWF isn't that great (unless you're wraithstriking), since you're already getting penalties.
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2009-12-10, 03:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Michigan
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
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2009-12-10, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
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2009-12-10, 05:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- The cold north
Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Every time I post a statement feel free to add 'In my opinion...' whenever applicable.
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2009-12-10, 05:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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2009-12-10, 05:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Aberdeen;United Kingdom
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2009-12-10, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
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- Oregon
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
I'd compare it to Improved Buckler Defense. IPD lets a THFer use a shield for a feat, this lets you get near THF damage for a feat. Since you can already use the shield feats and THF at the same time (two handed shield bashing) that's not a problem either. I don't think the feat is out of line at all. I would definitely state that it only works with one hand though, otherwise you could Oversized TWF and get 2/1 on both hands, then Leap Attack that into 3/1 on twice as many attacks as a THFer, and then we just made it TWF even more uber than THF was in the first place.
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2009-12-10, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Michigan
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
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2009-12-10, 08:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Aberdeen;United Kingdom
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2009-12-10, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
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- Brasilia, Brazil
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Wow, never thought that this would arrive somewhere. Good.
Yes, I actually thought about allowing it to main hand only, or at least giving a 1.5 modifier to the off hand instead of the x2.
My first lines of thought keptme wandering a +2 shield AC Bonus would worth even if compared to expending a feat and reducing possible damage a little.Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
Link
Originally Posted by Dyllan
Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
- Bruce Dickinson, Born in 58
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2009-12-10, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
New feat or no, psychic warriors still do it better.
Really, TWFing is so crappy that I'd give them x2 Power Attack damage on main AND off-hand. Still won't be as good as a regular THF weapon spending those two feats on Power Attack and Shock Trooper, rather than Power Attack and Two-Weapon Fighting.
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2009-12-10, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
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- Texas...for now
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Basically what you've done is made Ubercharge+Turtle possible. While that's great, that doesn't really help fighters. As-is, they can already Ubercharge+Lockdown, or Ubercharge+Dungeoncrasher, or Dungeoncrasher+Archery, or Lockdown+Turtle, or probably half a dozen combinations that I'm forgetting. They don't need more combinations of 2 styles, they need a way to get more than 2 styles.
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2009-12-10, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Brasilia, Brazil
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
Yeah, I think you have a point.
The thing is, I wanted something to help those Sword'n'Boarders take some time on the spotlight. I mean, they are one the paradigmal concepts of fighter type adventurers, yet they do not get the love they deserve... Sad...Paladin Review - A Class Balance by me
Link
Originally Posted by Dyllan
Fawsto is definitely a lawyer. Nothing against what you said, Fawsto - but I've never read anything that sounded more like it came from a lawyer. :-)
- Bruce Dickinson, Born in 58
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2009-12-10, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Manchester NH
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
I disagree with you. the -2 can easily be negated. Yes its more resource intesive build then others but doesn't make it that crappy. Especialy with this feat.
Assuming main hand 2 and off hand 1.5
using the example above
+2 to hit
long sword 1d8+14 avg:18.5
and
+2 to hit
short sword 1d6+9(7 pa+2str) avg:12.5
total avg: 31
if any thing it would be a great feat for twf crit builds.When the end comes i shall remember you.
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2009-12-10, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- New Orleans and abroad
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Re: Monkey Grip - Do not throw stones yet, pls!
I would take this feat if I were playing a fighter type. Or especially a rogue.
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