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Thread: combining weak feats
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2009-12-11, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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combining weak feats
i was considering combining a couple of the weaker feats such as run and endurance and improved unarmed and improved grapple to make them more appealing to characters.
would this make them to good?
Also i was considering doing something about feats like stealth perhaps increasing the bonus to +3.
what do pepole think?Last edited by awa; 2009-12-11 at 10:40 PM.
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2009-12-11, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
If...
...your players will always take it: too strong, tone down a bit.
...your players will usually take it for a given character: strong feat
...your players might take it after they've taken good options: weak feat
...nobody ever takes it: too weak/circumstancial. Make it stronger or more versatile.
Granted, forums are a good resource for objective comparisons (in which case, I think both of these are good ideas), but running them past your players is the key thing here. Gauge their reactions appropriately, and don't be scared of making strong feats, just ones that are better than any other feat."It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson
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2009-12-11, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Last edited by taltamir; 2009-12-11 at 11:08 PM.
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
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2009-12-11, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
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2009-12-11, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Unfortunately, even the best plans sometimes go wrong, so sometimes it's actually better to have a way to get out of rocks falling than of preventing it. Especially if other people in your party enjoy doing stupid things (like taking on a whole army at once).
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2009-12-12, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
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2009-12-12, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-12-12, 01:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
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2009-12-12, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-12-12, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-12-12, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 03:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
I believe the line you were looking for is "YOU SHALL not pass", as opposed to "thou shalt."Last edited by UserClone; 2009-12-12 at 03:15 AM.
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2009-12-12, 03:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Yeah, since King Arthur & co. had to be speaking really Old (5th Century) English, which is a Germanic language vastly different from the one we're using, it makes no sense to throw in 17th Century English word forms.
Those Monty Python guys were mostly Oxbridge types, and they stayed pretty true to the legends. (Except funnier, of course.)
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2009-12-12, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
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2009-12-12, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2009-12-12, 07:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Don't underestimate weak feats such as run. the extra they give is sometimes jest what you needed.
For example-if you are a light melee swashbuckler style/twin dual, that x5 speed will help you get closer to that archer/wizard/ranged whatever that keep shooting and moving away faster they normal, and that extra round of arrival might be crucial.
Maybe you need to catch somebody that is running away because he holds the only map of a castle you need to invade and had scry protection all around.
Now, I admit these are specific situations, but they DO come up.
And how many useful feats melee dudes get anyway? not much.
These feats need a boost to make worthwhile, but they have their uses.
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2009-12-12, 07:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
DD requires level 7 wizard, teleport level 9, invisibility requires move silently checks (your wizard will fail those).
EDIT: invis also requires a creature based threat (and not, say, a trap), and it requires that it doesn't have blind sense or scent (tracking dog).
In cases where I found it useful, I was playing a wizard that has not YET learned dimension door.Last edited by taltamir; 2009-12-12 at 08:55 AM.
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
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2009-12-12, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
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2009-12-12, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
Ooh, Ooh, Silenced Ghost Hand!
Edit: Also, Ghost sound has round per level duration, so it can come first. Ideally, we go quickened Ghost hand (echoing running noise), Invisibility, and then very carefully and slowly tiptoe out. Even if they disbelieve the sound, its still obscuring your noise.Last edited by Project_Mayhem; 2009-12-12 at 09:15 AM.
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2009-12-12, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
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2009-12-12, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-12-12, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
We're comparing it to the run feat. Which is only reliable against a slim sampling of the monster catalog.
Invisibility is a good way to prevent being targeted. Yeah, if you're running solo and the monster can detect you, it won't allow you to escape- but it'll still give you a miss chance against most of them while you hoof it. If there's someone else around, then they'll probably get the monster's attention more than you do (again, against most of them)."It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
- Thomas Jefferson
Avatar by Meynolds!
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2009-12-12, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
I generally roll any feat that begins with the words 'Improved' or 'Greater' into the base feat, and add a 'special' line to the base feat stating that you only get the increased benefit when you meet all the prerequisites you would have needed for the improved version of the feat. For example:
PRECISE SHOT [Fighter, General]
You are skilled at timing and aiming ranged attacks.
Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot.
Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard -4 penalty on your attack roll.
Special: If you also have Dex 19 or better and base attack bonus +11 or better, you ignore cover and concealment, and when firing into a grapple you never hit the wrong target. Total cover and total concealment still provide their normal benefits against your ranged attacks.
This begins to correct a balance problem between casters and non-casters (spells scale in power as you level up, but feats don't), and allows melee types to take advantage of good ideas that were poorly executed in the rules (such as improved two-weapon fighting and greater two-weapon fighting, or bounding assault and rapid blitz). Naturally the monsters get the same benefits too if they take these feats. It works nicely.
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2009-12-12, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: combining weak feats
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